Corey Allan (00:07.650)

Well, this is fun because Dr. Wyatt Fisher is joining me and for today's episode. And, uh, as we're recording, I just was on his show like the hour prior. And now, so it's like a two hour conversation I get with Dr. Fisher, but this time I get to run the ship. So, so Dr. Wyatt is so glad to have you here.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (00:27.670)

Yeah, thanks Corey. Thanks for having me on your program.

Corey Allan (00:30.349)

Absolutely. And so, uh, you, you've been doing a lot of the same work we do in the sense of really specializing in marriages and relationships, really trying to enhance connection, really trying to deal with conflict. But, um, what are some, let's start with softball. What's some of the most common things you come across and then how do you address them?

Dr Wyatt Fisher (00:51.730)

Yeah, I mean, some of the most common is unresolved resentments. And so first thing I do with couples, I see in my practice, I have them make a list of all their unresolved resentments, the categories. And then I teach them one of my tools called the reunite tool. And then every session, we just take one resentment at a time and just work through that resentment. And then that covers like the first phase of my work with couples and depends on how many resentments they have. So that

Dr Wyatt Fisher (01:21.650)

just to get through those resentments. The reason I start there is I've learned through the years, nothing else goes well when there's active resentments. It's hard to have sex with someone you resent, hard to go on dates with someone you resent. And so if the resentments aren't cleared, nothing else really works.

Corey Allan (01:38.809)

Where do the resentments come from? I mean, how do you, how do you, how do you capture that? Cause I have a thought too, but I'm curious what yours is.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (01:40.276)

Oh wow.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (01:45.070)

Sure. I mean, they can come from all sorts of directions. The categories, common categories could be parenting, you know, just differences in parenting style. It could be lack of sharing power on decision making. It could be sexual problems. It could be emotional intimacy problems. It could be conflict resolution style. It could be around finances. It could be around in-laws. And so, there's so many big categories when you're in a marriage with someone where there can be

Corey Allan (02:13.537)

Okay.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (02:15.050)

the stuff we're not taught. We know we're not taught what do you do when you're starting to feel upset or hurt or offended. And so often we either stuff it or we get antagonistic or we pull away or we blow up. And none of those are constructive. And so that's where a lot of couples come in with all these unresolved resentments and they're just not quite sure what to do with them.

Corey Allan (02:34.116)

Okay, and so the way I'm hearing you talk about this is it's a systemic thing. It's a relational thing where it's playing out between each person in context with each other.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (02:40.535)

Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (02:42.770)

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, because every unresolved resentment, it's another brick in the wall between you and your partner. Right. And so for us to have a chance of getting closer again, we have to address all these bricks between us. And each of those bricks is usually a different area of resentment.

Corey Allan (03:00.809)

Okay, so I am curious because this is a phrase I came across a couple of years back From a fellow podcaster and clinician that I've done a whole lot of training alongside too She uses the phrase that resentment comes from cowardice How does that land with you

Dr Wyatt Fisher (03:20.041)

Hmm. What does she mean by that?

Corey Allan (03:22.669)

I use the, I love it because I think it comes from, I didn't speak up when it first became a problem.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (03:29.230)

Uh, okay. Yeah. I would say that can be true, but not always true. Cause other times you may try to bring it up, but your partner gets defensive. They get combative. They don't take any ownership. So you've tried, but it hasn't gone anywhere. It's fallen on deaf ears. It's hit a brick wall. And so sometimes it might be fear of bringing it up. So we don't, but other times it might be, I've tried bringing it up several times, but it always blows up. And so I've learned not to bring it up again.

Corey Allan (03:44.856)

Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan (03:52.289)

Okay. That's good. So I'm just, I'm just curious because anytime I come across some different, um, because in the field we work in, you know, there's a lot of different approaches and, and there's not a, here is the ultimate, this is what you're supposed to do, right? A lot of it is defined by, uh, the clinician themselves, the situation, how you view the world, how you view humans, you know, there's a lot of factors that are at play.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (03:57.771)

Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (04:04.255)

Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (04:07.310)

Sure. Yeah. Right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (04:16.910)

Yeah. Sure.

Corey Allan (04:21.109)

knew like yourself, it's fun to just, okay, where are we in lockstep and where do we see the world a little different? Because I think this, this segues into where you were wanting to go today, which is the idea of conflict that obviously is resentments are a part of this, but what you talk about, you have some, uh, some tools or some ideas that really do help couples navigate this world and this aspect of your relationship a whole lot better and easier.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (04:24.412)

Yes.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (04:38.081)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (04:49.950)

Yeah, I'm definitely a big fan of tools. Cause a lot of people, I mean, talking about what you feel is helpful, right? Cathartic to get it out, but at the end of the day, what are we gonna do about it? And so to have some type of concrete action, I find to be really helpful for couples. So they can really sink their teeth into it and they have some structure with how are we gonna improve this? So I've created a variety of tools for these common pressure points. And one of them is definitely conflict. So many couples I see, and I'm sure you can relate, of one of the biggest problems what we were just talking about, which is how do I bring up the hard stuff? You know, how do we talk through the hard stuff? Because if we can't address those things that happen on a daily basis or weekly basis, then it's going to start fracturing our connection, our rapport, and then everything else is going to break down as a result. So this tool is it's on it's for conflict resolution and it takes about five minutes a day. I call it the bullseye question. It's very simple and it sounds really basic when you first hear it, but then and it gets more complex. But what you do with the bullseye is you're going to ask each other once a day, what's one thing I did right today and what's one thing I could have done better? So that's the question mark. What's one thing I did right today? What's one thing I could have done better? And there's one ground rule. All you're allowed to say in response is thank you for the feedback. Now, there might be moments where you're confused and you don't know what your partner's referring to.

Corey Allan (06:13.508)

OK.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (06:19.990)

and far between because most of the time you just may not like what they're saying. But if you're literally confused, you can ask clarifying questions like, how do we understand what you mean by that? Or can you give me an example? But once your partner answers, then all you're allowed to say is thank you for the feedback. Now there's a lot more to say. We're kind of unpacking this, but that's the bullseye. Just pure and simple. What's one thing I did right today? What's one thing I could have done better? By the way, I'm saying one thing on purpose because you don't want your partner to then

Corey Allan (06:21.193)

Right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (06:50.190)

you could have done better because then obviously that's overwhelming. Yeah.

Corey Allan (06:54.749)

because I could see that happening where it's like I'll give you the one thing you did well and then I got how much time you got for what you could have done better because because I got a lot

Dr Wyatt Fisher (07:01.230)

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So don't say what could I've done better today? Because you could be opening up a whole can of worms. So a couple of things with this. So one is, you know, most partners don't praise each other. It's just human nature to look for the bad look for how they're screwing up, look how they're not meeting my needs. And so because of that, you know, most people feel taken for granted, and they wish they felt more appreciated. And so that's why it starts there. Because when you have to ask

Corey Allan (07:14.489)

Right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (07:31.170)

When you ask your partner, what's one thing I did right today, that's good for both partners because it helps the partner giving the feedback, look for the bright spot. So they're cultivating an attitude of gratitude. And then obviously it's good for the listener because they're getting to hear what went well. So that's a positive. When people do that though, I notice they'll start with something really simple like, well, I appreciate that you shoveled the driveway or I appreciate that you unloaded the dishwasher or I appreciated that you took the kids to school.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (08:01.250)

So I didn't have to. So what I always encourage couples to do in those moments is now talk about what did that say about your partner that they did that? Because that turns it from appreciation into a compliment. So I...

Corey Allan (08:13.431)

Right, that moves it from it's not the here's how you made my life easier today. Instead it's here's who you are as a person or at least it's closer to that side of it.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (08:18.571)

Uh huh. Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (08:23.210)

That's right. And that that hits deeper. So instead of thank you for shoveling the driveway, then you would say, and that really reflects about you that you're a hard worker, or that you were thinking of my needs. So I didn't have to shovel the driveway, you're being considerate. So you start using these, these descriptors about your partner's character. And then it really starts to sink in deeper that compliment. So that's, that's a nudge a lot of people need when they're given that appreciation.

Corey Allan (08:39.471)

Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan (08:52.209)

And I think that's an important one, Wyatt, because if you think about it, how often do we have a framework that is really just all about my world, right? That you made my life easier by doing this, man, thank you for serving me in that way or, or being a part of my staff. I mean, we joke about in my household, I have people for that, right? That like, why can't the kids get their stuff in the dishwasher and my wife will, because they have people for that.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (09:02.090)

Yeah, that's right.

Corey Allan (09:22.169)

Meaning me, I do it. Right. And, but it's just seeing it as, okay, if you can recognize that subtlety, which is actually huge to getting it about character or uniqueness of that person or a emotional bent or a, a skillset they've learned and honed, or they just uniquely have that's a different, that that's a deeper impact. Like you're describing.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (09:51.490)

It's much deeper. Yeah, and it takes a few moments. You know, when I prompt couples to take it further and say, Okay, so that thing you just said that you appreciated, what does that say about your partner? And they have to think like, well, you know, that did show that they are being thoughtful, or they are being sensitive, or they're being really compassionate, or they're being, you know, very loving, or whatever it is. And then when they make those comments, it makes both people feel better. Also, because then you're like, Wow, I'm married to someone who has like these great qualities. And then when you like, wow, that made me feel good. Thank you. Yeah. So that's huge. I read a study one time on like, I think it was 15 or 20,000 couples. And what it showed is that the couples who made it through hard times the best were the couples who said thank you the most.

Corey Allan (10:25.134)

That's good.

Corey Allan (10:39.409)

Yeah, wouldn't that be similar to, was it Gottman's work of the, the, I don't remember. Yeah. The five to one or nine to one or, you know, that. Yeah. And then it seems like there's an element of truth that's ringing through in all of this.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (10:43.850)

5 to 1.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (10:47.410)

Yeah. Right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (10:52.390)

That's right. Yeah. So the more you express that, I think Gottman's five to one is healthy couples have at least five positive to one negative interaction. But then really healthy couples have even more like nine or 10 positive to everyone negative. But yes, so compliments appreciation falls under the category of a positive interaction. And so we need that right, we need to feel overall that things are more positive than they are negative. And

Corey Allan (11:00.609)

There you go.

Corey Allan (11:18.529)

And that's all that goes back to your statement earlier of making it about the person, not what they've done for you. Because if I keep it about what they've done for me, it's not necessarily compliment of them. If their map of me is I'm selfish, then they see it as, well, yeah, I, you didn't really complimented me. You just complimented how I helped make your life easier.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (11:31.550)

true.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (11:38.130)

Right. Yeah. And both are valid. You know, I think it's okay and helpful to express appreciation for what you did. That did make me feel good. It helped me. But don't stop there. Then take it to that next level. And this is what it says about you. Yeah, yeah. So the appreciation is huge. So when you get the constructive feedback, this is the part that couples don't ever do also. And so we don't express our negative complaints or our frustrations or hurt feelings or needs not being met.

Corey Allan (11:50.776)

That's a good distinction.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (12:08.130)

actively on average. And then it builds up and then we blow up or we detach or we get passive aggressive. All these unhealthy things come out because that negative energy has to go somewhere. Right. And so often it will come out in our behavior in some negative way if we're not able to say it. So one analogy I use with couples is like a bike tire. And if you're pumping air into that tire every day, that's the stress of marriage and there's no release valve.

Corey Allan (12:23.869)

you

Corey Allan (12:32.069)

you

Dr Wyatt Fisher (12:38.050)

tire is going to blow up. And so just having a daily time to be able to get out a complaint. So there might be some days where there's no complaints and that's, that's great. Like those are great days, but just knowing you have a daily time to share and clear the air and get things off your chest, that in and of itself is sometimes all we need. Just being able to say it and knowing that your partner is going to follow that ground rule is key. So if you're going to bring something up and you know, your partner is going to get defensive, you won't bring it up.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (13:08.730)

So that's where that ground rule of all you can say is thank you for the feedback is so imperative because over time, that's going to build safety. And the key thing you want to make your partner feel in your marriage is that it's safe for them to bring up constructive feedback. Because if I'm getting defensive, if I'm getting like combative, if you bring up any type of constructive feedback, you're going to stop bringing it up, most likely. And now, indirectly, I just encourage you to bottle up.

Corey Allan (13:37.089)

Right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (13:38.430)

And so in the beginning, a lot of people are a little nervous to try this because they're like, I don't want to start a fight. I don't want to bring stuff up. Yeah, it's a little scary. But what happens if people are really disciplined following that ground rule, thank you for the feedback, they start feeling safer to bring up more real topics, and then they start feeling more open. And it can completely change the culture in the relationship if they do it on a regular basis to reassociate. Like, wow.

Corey Allan (13:43.929)

Understandably so. The history with this isn't good a lot of times.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (14:08.272)

feedback, whereas before I would just hold it in.

Corey Allan (14:10.969)

Um, I like that this is what comes. There's a Dr. Glover. I don't know. No more mission. Nice guy. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him. Um, he was, he w he's been on the show a bunch and we were talking one time about, he has a, uh, he, he, he uses some of what you're describing, but I think it's a lot more laser focused on a particular thing coming just from him, not relationally. Um, and so he'll have something he's trying to work on.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (14:18.896)

Sounds familiar.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (14:37.313)

Hmm.

Corey Allan (14:41.089)

just be, I'm trying to be a whole lot more consistent and following through with what I say I'm going to do. And so we can make that agreement with ourselves and not tell anybody. And then we can let it slide all the time because we don't really have anything to hold us accountable, if you will, or be accountable too. So he would do this with his wife, where there would be a relational component he'd be working on. And at the end of the day, he actually made up a chart that you would find, uh, in restaurants or public bathrooms or something that says rate how great the

Dr Wyatt Fisher (15:11.492)

Yep.

Corey Allan (15:11.629)

And there's five, five different faces of how did I do? And at the end of the day, he would give her, how did I do? Give me, give me the rating on how did I do on this? And with the caveat you're adding of it's great data for me. It's not to explain or rationalize or defend or justify. Instead it's okay. Now I know I need to, I let that slide or I don't see it quite that way, but okay. I care about your perception and my impact on you.

Corey Allan (15:41.469)

take that data and adjust it.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (15:43.150)

Mm-hmm, that's right. And if you're following this approach, this bullseye question, it stops blindsides because this is what happens, right? So we get frustrated, our partner hurts our feelings, and what do we do? We like say a sharp comment right in the moment, and they don't see it coming, so they get blindsided, then they get defensive, then we feel invalidated, and so we get frustrated. And so if you practice the bullseye, you don't have to do that anymore. And you can remind yourself, I don't have to bring this up right now because it's gonna be a blindside

practice this bullseye thing later in the day, that's when I can bring it up. And so that's a huge issue as well. Cause if you feel like there's never a time to bring up a complaint, you're just going to start randomly bringing them up. And that's going to lead to blind sides and then defensiveness. That's another angle to it. Yeah. Like you're constantly nagging.

Corey Allan (16:24.069)

Right. Or it leads to that's all you're bringing up is it becomes just it's a complaint fest the whole time and then it goes both ways because it's almost like, well, if you're going to just complain all the time, how about I'll let you have it too.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (16:35.671)

True.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (16:41.910)

That's right. And that's part of that defensiveness as well. Like what? You think it's my fault? That's actually your fault, right? That's just human nature, what we do. So that's a nice element to it. Also, when you get that feedback, right? So let's say, you know, your partner tells you like, hey, you know, this is great. And this says this about your character. But this thing you did over here, you know, this really hurt my feelings. This is where most of the work occurs, is when you get the feedback. And so it's human nature to want to justify ourselves

Corey Allan (16:57.369)

I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (17:11.910)

and explain why it wasn't our fault, how it actually was the circumstances, or it was actually our partner's fault. That's all that defensive impulse that we all have. And that's why if that ground rule is not in place, that's what we'll do. It's just human nature. So when you get that feedback, there's something I teach called the 50% rule. And what that means is you're just looking for the percentage, the sliver, the kernel of truth in that feedback that you feel is legit. Because sometimes you might get that feedback

Corey Allan (17:24.049)

Right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (17:41.970)

of feedback and you may think, you know what, that was not me at all. That was circumstances. That was like a one-off, a fluke. So I can just let that go. Other times you might get feedback and you may think, that was all me. I got to really work on that. That's like a huge growth area for me. But most of the time it's probably going to be somewhere in the middle where you're thinking, yeah, that was kind of me, kind of not me. It was actually these other things also, but there was a part there that I contributed. But the beauty is that you're in control as the part of this feedback I agree with and that I think is legit. Because of that, it keeps our defense walls down. Because if I feel forced to own something or if I feel forced to agree with a complaint, that's what brings out the defensiveness. However, if I feel in control of that process and I get to choose what part of that complaint

Corey Allan (18:21.497)

Okay.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (18:42.210)

and my internal motivation up for follow through and to do something about it. Cause no one's cornering me, no one's telling me what to do. I'm in control of that process. And so that's a huge game changer for people with that interpretation.

Corey Allan (18:55.889)

No, that's great because I think that's that element of, I'd have something kind of similar, I think, in some regards, the way I think I would frame it in the question of when you're getting that feedback and I find myself getting riled up because it's like, how dare you? Or here, you know, I want to explain it away when I can have the courageous moments of asking myself what in there is true, like you're describing, because there's gotta be a percentage that is. Because I have impact on people.

Corey Allan (19:25.989)

it still is impact. And so when I can ask myself what is what in that is true? What's possible? What what am I blind to? You know all those kinds of questions I get a chance to enhance myself or solidify myself so at least my spouse knows who they're up against. Right? That's like no no no I am never shoveling the drive again so I thought we already understood that and so that's just part of my character.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (19:27.271)

Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (19:32.950)

That's right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (19:35.697)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (19:43.850)

Sure, sure.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (19:51.150)

Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. I mean, it's this is where iron can sharpen iron in marriage, right? Because if there's no method, no mechanism to be able to give one another constructive feedback, we miss out on the opportunity to get refined. Because all of us have blind spots, we all have growth areas, we're human. However, most marriages like 99% don't have any safe method to give and receive constructive feedback. So therefore, it's

Corey Allan (19:57.289)

Right.

Corey Allan (20:05.152)

That's good.

Corey Allan (20:21.849)

Right, that's good.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (20:22.470)

But if you can buy into this idea that your partner is actually one of your, if not the biggest personal asset for your development, and this is a tool that can help you leverage it as long as you remember, whatever feedback I get, I am not expected to own all of it. It's up to me what I do with it. It's up to me what part of it I choose to agree with and work on. Again, that keeps my internal motivation high to do something about it.

Corey Allan (20:27.669)

I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this. I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (20:51.050)

to become a better version of myself to become a better partner.

Corey Allan (20:55.249)

That's great. That is so good. And I love it because it's five minutes a day. It's like at some point carve it out, have that, that touch base with each other. Get the information and you're off to the races because you've, you've actually in a lot of ways raised the floor of where you're operating. So then you can deal with other things a whole lot better and the connections a lot easier. And it seems like it just makes a whole lot. That's a better starting point day in and day out. Perfect.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (20:59.251)

Yeah, exactly.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (21:09.850)

Mm-hmm. That's right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (21:20.090)

It is. And the other nice thing with the two is if you both know like, oh, here's our time, we're about ready to do the bullseye, this is the time where we're going to give and receive feedback. And so you enter into it knowing what's going to happen. And that's such a huge issue. Because again, if you get that constructive feedback randomly, and you don't see it coming, that's when we get defensive. And so you know, oh, yeah, this is our time to do this. The other thing about it too, is who has ever heard your partner say to you, what could

Corey Allan (21:33.449)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (21:50.050)

I mean, that's such a rare, rare question to ever hear anyone ask us, our partner to ask us. And because of that, most of the time, I would say the majority of the time, that makes us feel so thankful and appreciative that they're even asking that we automatically want to say it in a kind way. And because we're so thankful, they're even asking us that question. And because of that, there's no rules with how you say the complaint. There's no like, you got to say it this way.

Corey Allan (22:03.069)

Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan (22:09.869)

Right.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (22:20.090)

word, you can't say this, because a lot of times with conflict resolution tools, there's a lot of rules with how you're allowed and not allowed. But from my experience doing this tool, partners are so thankful, their partners are asking them what they could have done better. It automatically puts them in this posture of wanting to have good manners.

Corey Allan (22:32.069)

Yeah. It's already in a more open stance to everything. It's that dynamic of, I think of, this is another thing I've come across that's so powerful with group work or with just individuals or people, not in the therapeutic context, although it fits. There's already a spoken arrangement in the therapeutic context though of they're coming

Dr Wyatt Fisher (22:39.650)

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Corey Allan (23:02.069)

for a reason, so they were, they're already a little more open to what you may say. But if I'm like in a social setting with people and somebody's just talking and talking and talking, and it's actually complaints, just the subtle, can I make an observation statement changes the dynamic if they say yes to it, because now they're all of a sudden more open rather than if I go, you know, what you should do is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Most of the time it's like, shut up. What do you, don't tell me what to do. But if it just that subtle.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:05.614)

Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:16.712)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:19.790)

Sure. Sure.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:25.650)

Hmm.

Corey Allan (23:32.069)

the same thing is built on is how, what, what could I do better? Is a different, I'm open to your feedback rather than hit me with it, baby. Perfect. That's good. So why does we, as we wrap up this first segment, how, how can people find you and the tools and work with you and all the, and the show that you have and everything you're doing?

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:33.131)

Yeah, similar principle.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:37.257)

Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:43.570)

Yeah, or not saying anything at all. Then your partner gets fed up and then they criticize you. Yeah.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (23:57.670)

Sure. Yeah, the best place is my podcast, the Dr. Wyatt show. I put out one podcast episode a week, they're usually about 15 minutes or so really practical to the point. So that's the best way. So the Dr. Wyatt show podcast, my website is dr. Wyatt Fisher calm. And you can find me on all major social channels at Dr. Wyatt Fisher.

Corey Allan (24:20.249)

Well, man, thanks so much for the work, the collaboration, the tools, and just the making people better. That's so good and needed.

Dr Wyatt Fisher (24:28.210)

Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Corey.