Corey Allan: Welcome to the show. I'm Dr. Corey Allan, alongside my wife Pam.

Pam Allan: Glad to be here.

Corey Allan: Where we like to talk about a lot of frameworks and conversation starters and actions and just, I guess you could kind of sum it up in how we view things, helps determine what we do with things when it comes to marriage and life and sex and parenting and all of the above,

Pam Allan: All the gamuts.

Corey Allan: And it is so interesting to me because we've been doing this for a long time now as far as being on the air every week, and some of the things can get really complicated and it seems like there's really big things we need to be doing. And then there's other times where we need to just, it's the little things. And so I've got a clip from Dr. Jordan Peterson talking about that, that I want to start the show off with because I think it's a great way to frame this part of our show real quick.

Dr Jordan Peterson: Your life isn't margaritas on a beach in Jamaica. That happens now and then. Those are exceptions. Your life is how your wife greets you at the door. When you come home every day, like 10 minutes a day, your life is how you treat each other over the breakfast table, an hour and a half or an hour every single day. You get those mundane things, those things you do every day. You concentrate on them and you make them pristine. It's like you got 80% of your life put together these little things that are right in front of us. They're not little, that's the first thing. They are not little and they're hard to set. And if you set them right, it has a rippling effect and fast too, way faster than people think.

Corey Allan: Yeah, I love the concept of how often do we overlook the mundane and the simple? Because what we're focusing on is the big

Pam Allan: Ripple effect, right? So all those little things do have this ripple effect on everything else,

Corey Allan: Right? Because we've had conversations over the years of being thankful for the little things with each other, trying to interact with each other in good ways. That is a ripple effect for us, for the kids, for everyone in some ways. But most importantly, I think from what he's talking about is the importance of recognizing when I can get those things in line, I take care of a lot of aspects of my life just by doing those little things. It

Pam Allan: Shows myself, it shows my spouse that those things matter. And when the little thing I do for my spouse, whether it's conversation like he said, how we greet each other at the door, those things that plays into foreplay, it plays into respect that plays into all these different that we say we want from our spouse

Corey Allan: And how I'm approaching my own life.
And so I think it's a great way to think about this. And as we go into today's show coming up on the regular version today, I've gone back into the archives and pulled a segment where what we were talking about is how we oftentimes want permission to do things like is this permissible? And so we're basing it off of scripture of all things are permissible, permissible, but are they beneficial? And so we get into a dialogue about this and I've gone through and edited it down and just revisiting it to make it recognize how am I handling myself in the ways I'm going about things and the impact therein. And then on the extended content today, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe@passionatelymarried.net slash academy. I've gone back again and found a segment on eight steps to Great Sex, and it's not your normal tabloid. Here's 52 ways to make them fall in love with you all over again. It's concepts that build off of each other. And again, I think what will ring true through all of this is how am I handling the little things when I'm trying to tackle the big things? So all that's coming up right after this.
Well, even though the weather may not yet feel like fall, it is just around the corner,

Pam Allan: Thank

Corey Allan: Goodness, but which for us in our family, Pam, this means high school football games, band competitions, also affectionately known as band tober. It'll be coming up where there is something every day of the week almost when it comes to September and October, us traveling to see family and a daughter. That's a couple states away, but fortunately, our sponsor today gives us wholesome, convenient meals for jam packed days. Factor is America's number one ready to eat meal kit, and it can help you fuel up fast with chef prepared, dietician approved, ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door. You save time, eat well, and stay on track with your healthy lifestyle. We can skip the extra trip to the grocery store and the chopping and the prepping and even the cleaning up too, while still getting the flavor and nutritional quality that we need. Factors fresh, never frozen meals, and I love that fact. Never frozen meals. They're ready in just two minutes. So all you have to do is heat and enjoy and then get back to crushing your goals and your schedule so you can refresh your healthy habits without missing a beat. They have 34 plus weekly flavor packed dietician approved meals ready to eat in two minutes plus they're smoothies.

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Pam Allan: And the context is,

Corey Allan: The context is where Paul's writing to the church in Corinth about how people can abuse Christian liberties because of what, when Christ came along, he changed the law. The law originally, this is my interpretation, so if you are a scholar, email me if I'm way off with this. It's a chance for me to learn and grow and refine as well. The law originally was how do I try to get right with God? How do I create my relationship to God

Pam Allan: With a bunch of rules?

Corey Allan: Christ came and flipped that completely to make it to where now the law shows there's no way you can get through God except through me. So it was a way to basically magnify and define our sin better to show and prove we needed Christ's sacrifice. Well, as humans tend to do, we take things as we want them and try to use them to our advantage. And so what was happening in the church in Corinth was liberties were being abused, but I'm free to do this. And so they're being flippant about it. And so Paul, a couple different times makes the statement of, okay, everything can be permissible or is permissible, but it's not beneficial. Meaning what are the impacts of your choices?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: We live in a world that's struggling with this right now that I am free. Yes, liberty, yes. At what price, at what impact? Because yes, you're free to do whatever under the law, not biblical. I'm going American Western. Yeah. Are you breaking the law? No, but are you harming somebody? That's the question. That's the impact. And so there's still this element of a kingdom, and this is where I want, I don't really want, it's going to have a lot of overlaps where this is going to be a biblical foundation conversation of a kingdom conversation, but also a relational. Yeah, you're

Pam Allan: Just taking the concept and narrow narrowing it down, AAL conversation.

Corey Allan: Correct. So I think they're going to play off each other is my hope from the outset of this, but I think what matters, we've always tried to take the stance of we don't want to be a moral authority for somebody. We want to help guide towards challenging questions, reframe the questions, ask yourself what do you really believe? Reevaluate to solidify some solidness and character in people,

Pam Allan: And you come to your conclusion, right?

Corey Allan: Right. Because we, it seems like far too often, this is what was mentioned months ago in one of our academy calls on the idea of a lot of people want to be told what to do, and when it comes to these dicey situations, they want to know who to blame if it doesn't go right, which is true. I think that's who we are as humans because what did Adam and Eve do? They didn't own up to it. I would always love to see what would've happened with the world had Adam when God said, what happened here? If he just actually said, you know what, God, that's on me. You told me I needed to use my strength and kind of watch out for her and I didn't blame me. I'll own this one. That's all me, dude.

Pam Allan: And if she said, you know what? I screwed up. I did too. This is my fault.

Corey Allan: But that's not necessarily who we are as humans because of this free will thing, because of this freedom thing, but how do we start to look at and examine with what we want in our lives and what we want in our marriage while yes, there can be freedom there. I'm not doing anything wrong. What's the impact of what it is I'm seeking? What's the impact of what it is I want? What are the consequences of that? Because I think too often we get caught in this trap of Yeah, but it's okay, and so what I'm really wanting underneath all that is for you to believe my okay and come along with me when it maybe isn't okay to you. It's just recognizing that let's use this in the realm of a sex life with a couple, because one person is going to be the higher desire for novel erotic fantasy, what have you, and I love Esther Purell's statement of fantasies usually are fraught within politically incorrectness that there's things in there that's like, oh, I am ashamed.
I even think that, but it really turns me on, or whatever it might be because they come in all shapes and sizes and there's all kinds of variety because some fantasies for people are about past experiences, even with current spouse, which we've taken the stance of that fantasy is not your spouse though. That's who you were. That's not who you're with. So it's the fantasy, right? There's sometimes fantasies of other, there's sometimes fantasy of kink or fetish or all these kinds of different things. It could just be more athletes termed curiosities, but it's just realizing we as people when we get caught in this dilemma of I'm uncomfortable with something or I feel like I have been harmed with something, we overreact to it and we shoot it down, and then if we're in God's kingdom, we can oftentimes then go to scripture and use that as a weapon,

Pam Allan: Pull out our holy card to trumpet

Corey Allan: Or pull out the scripture out of context to say what it is I want or why you can't do this, or that's the whole weaker brother thing of don't cause me to stumble. Well, your belief is causing me to stumble, and so it's just some of this is just a little bit of a conversation I want to have with you about the idea of the world in which we're in of how do we recognize we all need to just do better in bringing up what I'm struggling with, what I'm wrestling with, what I want to try out, what I want to do. I need to really do some wrestling of what's underneath that because that's where that scripture fits to me of yes, I can explore these thoughts or these ideas or what I want to do with you, but is it the best choice? Is it beneficial? Is it edifying for both of us? Because a lot of times a higher is desire. Spouse is pushing an agenda, and I'm using that word intentionally, and their spouse isn't interested, but yet they keep pushing. So you have to ask yourself, is that beneficial for you?

Pam Allan: A valid question, you mean you could totally get in a stalemate here between a couple where the low desire is not pushing themselves at all, and that's not good either, right? I've got to be curious about why I take my stand as the low desire person.

Corey Allan: I think this has happened on both sides. Absolutely. But

Pam Allan: Yeah, the high desire also needs to evaluate why the word curious is so good and just understanding myself better, understanding where I'm coming from and really I challenging work, and I think that's the crux of it here. But yeah, I think you're right in that high desire needs to evaluate, but then you can still come to a stalemate if you're coming to it from a great point of view, right? Well,

Corey Allan: I think stalemate is an inevitability on some things in marriage. That's the same concept as gridlock that we're going to find things that were blocked by our partner's wants too. But this is where Shen's work was. You don't talk your way through these times. You grow your way through 'em, and a lot of that means you refine your stance on them. You refine and realize maybe what it is I was wanting was a little hollow. Maybe it was just fleeting. Maybe it was just, it won't actually really satisfy. It's not an expanding of myself. It's actually a diminishing of myself if I'm honest about what I'm on. It's the tyranny of the lows com denominator. There's a lot of different things I can start to examine to where when I do that kind of a work, I am less likely to blame my partner or feel like I'm held hostage by my spouse because of that work.
I'm using them as a conduit for me to grow. The reverse is true with a low desire. The pressures that they feel to want to be invited into and engage in something that they're not comfortable with, the more they can examine and use the pressures that's coming from their higher desired spouse as a conduit for their growth, the more they might reach that plateau or that level, the unlike plateau, the Mesa, if you will, that allows for, it's a little more comfort, but you're higher up, but you still got the possibility of the next tier if you will. Then you got the possibilities of using that as the impetus for your own steps and progress and growth and vibrancy and life, and it's because of the pressure that came, because everything that we have in life that we value came from pressure because the story I think of is the person that worked really, really hard and created something out of nothing or was really dedicated and devoted to a task and earned a living and earned a life because of it.
I've got clients that have done this that came out of really rough nothings and created something of themselves that was from pressure versus the person that was born into luxury. They don't appreciate the luxury. They don't understand the value of it. They might still appreciate it, but it's not the depth of an appreciation because it's just what they've known. It was just given to them. They didn't earn it. This is the same kind of pressure that's involved in our sex lives. This is the same kind of pressure that's involved in intimacy in marriage and depths of connection, and we've gotten to the point, I just made this comment to you that's behind the scenes. For those of you that are listening, I made the comment to you the other day of a sense of relaxedness to talk about some real things. The other night when we were just sitting there having dinner at a picnic table, that it was a revealing and an exposing of myself in a lot of ways, but there was an ease to it because of the pressures that we've worked through to get to this point to where there's less fear of, well, but I'm going to get judged.
I'm going to get diminished. I'm going to get told how to fix it. I'm all these different things that have been our history, and now it's like if I do get told that, but the likelihood of being told that anymore is a lot less because there's an element of working through this that we've created a value because of the pressure, and it's not that we've given in overall. It's that we've used that as a drive force and you digest that pressure better. It's the thing I think of, somebody made a comment on the call last night of, oh, based on the topic that the majority of this month's coaching call was on with the passionate marriage chapter, that he was blown away that in three years, his wife is now reading that book with him when before it'd be out of the question. And then what came to my mind is I'm blown away that my wife is on co-host on this show with me from where it was almost 10 years ago

Pam Allan: When I used to, couldn't listen to it, right?

Corey Allan: But that's the pressure that happens that it's not necessarily overt. It's just a journey of alongside of companionship of not always doing it, but having the crux to keep coming back to of, am I wrong in pushing what I'm pushing for? Maybe I've squared it and I'm not, but is my pushing for it beneficial? That's a better question. Is it worth it? Is it edifying for both of us? Is it really going to satisfy what I have attached to it? And those are the things I need to ask myself?

Pam Allan: Well, then what is it I'm trying to satisfy

Corey Allan: And can it be, because a lot of times some of our fantasies come out of some serious hurt.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: They come out of some trauma, they come out, and that's the way the brain can rewire and make sense of it. And so if I really get into where I bring it to the real light and actually try it out, will it maybe not? Might crumble some things for a short time.

Pam Allan: For a short time though, right? I mean, we just said

Corey Allan: True.

Pam Allan: Good things come out of pressure.

Corey Allan: Even that information can be beneficial. Then you start recognizing, okay, wait, that didn't get what I was hoping for, so now I can use that data better.

Pam Allan: Yeah, you do, but they're all learning moments, right? I mean, you go back to same old example. The light bulb wasn't created in a day, right? All the errors, all of the failures led to, okay, well, that's not,

Corey Allan: This is how you

Pam Allan: Don't do it. Yeah. This is not how you build a light bulb, so let's keep trying new things. So I think there is some joy in there can be joy in that piece if that's a piece of it. When you're looking at that perspective, I guess in that analogy, it's okay. A light bulb probably could be a good thing, but what is my goal for what it is I'm going after? What is it I'm trying to accomplish with this

Corey Allan: And add the addendum to it, and this is where I want to land this conversation. What is the impact of my goal or what I'm trying to get? What is that going to do to those around me? Because we don't live lives in bubbles. What I choose to do has impact on you, on our kids, on the nation, everything. And so it's seeing it as how do I see both sides of this coin?

Pam Allan: I think I got to go back to that. I think that that is so big. We've gone through a lot of life with family. Everybody listening has gone through a lot of life with your family, and it still just ies me. People that make a decision and they say, well, this is happening to me. It's not happening to them, so I don't know what the big deal is, and they're just so unaware of what they're doing affects anybody else in their circle. It's only about them not realizing, well, yeah, maybe I'm not the one going through X, Y, Z, but man, I still have to show up to a family reunion with you, and that's awkwardness. Maybe

Corey Allan: Because my not showing up is impact,

Pam Allan: Right? True. But I mean the kids and the schedules and you name it. All these things that happen, gosh, hopefully we're grown up enough to realize that the things that we do in any arena, we're not the only ones that it

Corey Allan: Impact, and that's the whole point of this conversation. Thanks for framing it just like that, Pam, because the whole point in my mind is we have spent lots of times, lots of minutes on the air talking about when you're dealing with something with a spouse addressing the impact of their choices, behaviors, decisions, actions, whatever is the best way to go, then you're not attacking their character. You're addressing its impact of them. We're flipping it now to where, how do you examine your impact? Because if you want to be in a marriage that's edifying, loving, caring, compassionate, you better take into account the impact you have. And if I'm willing to really have those moments of growth, I'm much more likely going to be able to address, I can't mitigate the impact completely because the choices we make do have impact, doesn't matter, but I can be cleaner about it and then I can address when the time comes. If I have to pay a price for it, I can be much more honest about, yes, I get it. I understand how that hit you that way. I can understand how you responded that way. I can understand how you hear it

Pam Allan: This way. And that acknowledgement goes so far,

Corey Allan: Completely, so far. Then it's no longer, why won't you do this? And it's more, I get it, but I'm still trying to grow, and this allows both. This creates room for both of us because I'm acknowledging both sides better while still trying to just handle mine.

Pam Allan: Right? It's funny, I think on that phraseology I just used, you can take that to mean two things. Okay? That acknowledgement only goes so far, or that acknowledgement goes so far. Yeah. It's nice to have that acknowledgement, and that comes back to the integrity of the person who's acknowledging it, right? Okay, I acknowledge this, but if everything else in life is not coming from integrity, then that's just someone making a decision saying, yeah, I acknowledge you're going to be upset about it, but I really don't care, but I acknowledge that you're going to be upset about it. No, so I think I just say that out loud to say for everybody listening, understand what your acknowledgement means and where it's coming from in yourself,

Corey Allan: And that's the sophistication of communication in humans

Pam Allan: Is

Corey Allan: It's a two-sided coin, and we don't think that way enough. We all need to do better and thinking about that because when we do, it lifts everybody up or has the better potential of doing so because then you're starting to deal with things a whole lot better rather than It's me against you. What is it in your mind, Pam, that makes us as human beings, we want the answer. How do I fix this thing? How do I get permission to do something? How do I give me the paint by numbers? If I do this and I do this and I do this and I do this, then I'll get that.

Pam Allan: What is it that makes this that way?

Corey Allan: Yeah, I want you to answer that question. Can you do that?

Pam Allan: Oh my gosh. Okay. That was kind of spur of the moment. Well, we're made to be curious and inquisitive, right? Why did Apple, right, because we said we couldn't.

Corey Allan: Well, yeah, there's something in our nature. There's

Pam Allan: Something in our nature.

Corey Allan: I'm going to chart my own path, but I think there's also something in us, particularly when we come up against things that are difficult. It's like, just give me the solution rather than my figuring it out in the midst of it is the process of solution.

Pam Allan: Okay. Well, and we want an immediate solution, I think of today's culture of, well, just give me a pill,

Corey Allan: Instant gratification.

Pam Allan: Give me a pill that makes me lose weight rather than actually eating right. Things like that. We've kind of been spoonfed a lot of things,

Corey Allan: And if there's anything that doesn't go together with marriage, it's spoonfeeding. It's a different playing field altogether.

Pam Allan: Got to have some grit.

Corey Allan: It's all together different. Well, if we left something undone, let us know. 2 1 4 7 0 2 9 5 6 5 or feedback@passionatelymarried.net. Transcripts are available on each of the episodes pages@passionatelymarried.net. Also, you can find all of the advertisers deals and discount codes at each of the episodes pages, so please consider supporting those who support the show. So however you took some time out to spend it with us and wrestle through some of the different things so that maybe you can now focus on the little things and get those done. Well, thank you and we'll see you next time.