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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan
All Things Are Permissible #538
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On the Regular version of today’s show …
A wife gets turned off when her husband wants to do some novel things in their sex life. How can she address him and the situations better?
A husband emails about a wife who has lost all desire and libido due to a medication she is on. How can her get her more engaged in their sex life so it doesn’t feel one-sided?
On the Xtended version …
There is a Scripture that says, All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial. How does this apply to our marriage and sex life?
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Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, passionatelymarried.net.
You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.
Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where I don't know if the nation fully knows this, because we haven't talked about it to great extent yet, but we have this thing that comes along every so often yearly, called the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway.
Pam Allan: I'm thinking they know about this.
Corey Allan: It's a brand new thing, that we're just now springing it on everybody.
Pam Allan: It's not brand new.
Corey Allan: It's not?
Pam Allan: Yeah.
Corey Allan: Okay. Well, it's June 23rd through the 25th in 2021. Registration is open now, by the way, if you go to passionatelymarried.net/getaway, you'll find more information about the little get together we've got going on this year in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Pam Allan: I'm looking forward to the food.
Corey Allan: Okay.
Pam Allan: There's some good restaurants in down town Minneapolis.
Corey Allan: I don't know why that surprises me, that that's why you went on, and what you're looking forward to-
Pam Allan: Any other foodies out there, I'm going to be open for some meals.
Corey Allan: That is who I am married to, that is for sure. But this is one of those things that we really are hoping that people will come, a little bit of a different format, obviously a different location, because we've always done it here in the DFW area.
And so heading up north, it's going to be a lot of fun because the whole different environment, plus we're staying downtown, we're in downtown Indy. So once you get there to the hotel, you don't need a vehicle.
Pam Allan: No, no, easy to just-
Corey Allan: You walk everywhere, it's going to be a fabulous three days, but we've shifted a little bit of the schedule. So it's the same length of time, but we're encouraging Sunday to happen, to be just a lot more relaxed for you and your spouse, to decompress, vacation a little bit, see the sites, and then travel home later on in the day, or early the next week. But registration is happening now, so I hope you'll come join us.
This is Sexy Marriage Radio, where just like we do at the getaway, we try to talk about, and address whatever's going on in the nation's world, what will help them in their life, and their marriage, and their sex life, any and all in between. Because there are struggle that happens in marriage, there's times and seasons that happen.
That's one of the questions for today, is a season of things that can happen. And there's some weighty things going on in people's worlds right now. I just think of clients I've got right now, and there's some tough stuff that people are facing. And I think that's all the time, but it seems like it can ebb and flow.
Pam Allan: It feels magnified right now, as a season kind of for this entire planet, with all the COVID stuff, and the extra things that have been piled on, and all the political strife and such, everything just feels magnified.
Corey Allan: And then add to it, the dog days of summer, where like here in the south in Texas, summer just keeps to hang on, and it's like, "Come on, cool weather, finally, get here cool weather." And that seems to add a new breath of life, but those are the things that happen, and it's normal, and we're here for you, because what we want to do is speak to what will help you the most.
And the way you let us know is you can call us 214-702-9565. We want to hear your voice, I can even alter it a little bit if you're concerned, but we want to start dialogues with you. And so call us up with your questions, your thoughts, your topics, or email us at email@example.com
Or record your voice, your question, and then email it to us at firstname.lastname@example.org there's a lot of different options to help be engaged. And then we've got this platform going on, the inaudible passionatelymarried.net where there are some fantastic dialogues happening.
More and more each day seem to join, and more and more support is found among the community, among the people that are involved and engaged, and so you are not alone, with whatever is facing you and your marriage. And so we're glad you're here.
Well, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is a couple of your questions and our answers, and then on the extended content today, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at passionatelymarried.net/smracademy
We're going to have a little bit of a behind the scenes conversation, that Pam and I have been discussing over the course of a couple of weeks here and there, but we're going to do it off of this idea, the scripture that talks about all things are possible, but not all things are beneficial from Paul-
Pam Allan: Permissible.
Corey Allan: Thank you, in Corinthians. And how that kind of applies to just life, because yes, we have a lot of freedoms in our world, and as Christians, we have a lot of freedoms and liberties in our world, but is it beneficial, just because I have that freedom? All that's coming up on today's show.
So to start off today, Pam, this is a topic that's come up before in the whole world of fantasies, and kind of moving the dial a little bit in a marriage, where one person's the higher desirer with a little more of the erotic, or the adventure, or the novel, or the fantasies.
And the lower desire in that realm, it's just really uncomfortable. And so this is something, while we have circled to this before there's been a thread of emails to kind of have the same theme, if you will. And so we're going to dive back into it just real quick.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: So my husband has fantasies and desires that I'm just not comfortable with. I've tried to participate in these events some, but I always get turned off so quickly, and leave the session, feeling dirty, lonely, hurt, and like a terrible person.
I want to do and try new things to please him, and bring excitement to our marriage, but there's just some things that I feel I can't get behind, and I don't know how to overcome that, or to work it out with him. What do I do?
Because this is a lot of what happens in marriage on all kinds of levels, you just put it at whatever the comfort level is for each specific unique situation, right?
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: Because some people could live way out on the edges, and some people are not so far on the edges, but it's still, one of them can be pushed towards an uncomfortable, and I don't want to do that. I'm not covering me... Because vanilla is a flavoring, right?
Pam Allan: Yeah, yeah.
Corey Allan: Right. It's not necessarily tame, because each person's unique, and so one person's crazy might be really tame for someone else, and vice versa.
Pam Allan: Sure, right.
Corey Allan: But what I'm hearing her say, and this is the couple of the questions that come up to me as I'm reading this email, is this idea that she wants to try it out, which good on her, but she gets turned off so quickly.
Pam Allan: And I wonder why.
Corey Allan: Okay. I'm curious as to what does that actually mean? What does it look like when she's turned off?
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: Because this is where I want to come at it a little bit different.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: Because the easiest way to describe this, I guess, at face value that we've talked about this before, is the idea of how do you stretch your thresholds just a little bit into that, where I'm a little uncomfortable, but I can grow into the comfort of that.
But then there's also this element of this is the theme we've had over the years, the lower desire spouse, when it comes to this kind of pressure, is usually in the back of their mind thinking, but if I give into this, then where is it going to end?
It's going to go further, and further, and further and further, because fantasies are so progressive, and they want to just keep adding and building, which isn't always the case.
Pam Allan: Sure.
Corey Allan: Because most people have a backstop at some point.
Pam Allan: So it sounds like, maybe going into it, it's common for people to... It's the potentially negative self-talk going on. "Yeah. I'm going to try this, but my head isn't in the game to even really give it a shot." Am I way off base here?
Corey Allan: No. So this is just more of a testing, let's see, but I'm kind of sitting back skeptically, expecting it's not going to go well, it's almost a preconceived-
Pam Allan: To me it's kind of a preconceived notion and it can be very hard to truly try something out, and get my head in the game to where it might work, it might turn me on. Because I've got to be really proactive in my mind to help get myself there.
Corey Allan: There's some focus that has to come along with trying some new things, and sometimes the focus is on what you're trying to try out, but the other flip side of that coin on the focus is it has to have the undercurrent, and the knowledge of knowing I can handle it, because this is where I want to go with it, on the idea of I get turned off so quickly, and then I leave the session feeling dirty, lonely hurt, and like a terrible person.
So she's got some guilt things going on in there, that whatever the scripts are that say, "Well, good girls don't do this, upstanding Christians don't do this, solid marriages don't do this." Whatever it might be, there's a script in there somewhere that needs to at least be examined, and challenged on what's the truth in that?
Who are you now? What do you really align up with, and grieve agree with. But when you're talking about, "I get turned off so quickly." How do you know, what are the signals in your body, in your mind that are the quick turnoffs, that are the, "Okay, I just lost it."
Because this is something I think... This is where I want to spin this a little bit, to where everybody can understand this concept of, you have these times where you're on the on ramp for a sexual encounter, and one of you just loses the momentum, or the impetus, or is distracted or something, and it's a turnoff.
In that instance, it's more actually aptly described as a disconnect, probably, not a turn off because there's a difference. Of, "Oh, I just lost." Is different than, "I have a huge aversion to what just happened."
Pam Allan: I'm appaled by this-
Corey Allan: Right, Paul's the word I was thinking about. But so when you talking about this idea of, I get turned off so quickly, what does that really mean?
So this is the idea that we're going to challenge her to look back, and go, how does that play out in your mind, and in your body when that happens?
And then you leave the session. So I'm curious if you're turned off, do you try to stick with it and fake it, or do you bring it to the forefront right away?
Pam Allan: And that's a good question, because my immediate thought on that one is if you try and fake it, that's where resentment ends up coming up in my mind. And that's where it's a long game, and that's going to feed into my mind for the next time too.
Corey Allan: And his.
Pam Allan: Well, yeah, potentially his, but we're talking about her right now. And I'm just reading in there, maybe I get turned off so quick, because I'm just resenting it the whole time.
Corey Allan: Right. Because I want to challenge with this concept, is just the idea of when you feel like you're turned off, it's the same kind of thing of when you're disconnected, it's just higher up the scale. So how do you learn, inaudible frame it, how do you quiet your mind, and calm your heart? How do you self-sooth in that moment?
And most of the time, the best way to begin this process, and it's very, very disruptive for a sexual encounter. Because I don't think most people realize, the path to getting to where we really want to get, requires quite a bit of struggle.
Especially sexually, because you're talking about an intimate act, it doesn't go well, it's fraught with peril and risk, and am I doing okay? Is this right, I don't even know what I'm doing, but it's-
Pam Allan: Well, and the exposure to the spouse that can be inaudible.
Corey Allan: Right. And if you're doing something that's more of the scale of a fetish, or a taboo or a fantasy, you're talking about something typically that has a whole lot more damage, potentially in the way we think about it, that's why we've kind of kept it off base, off the reservation, and I'm not willing to try that.
Pam Allan: Sure.
Corey Allan: Versus, "Wait, what if I test this out?" Because then you're having to reevaluate who you are in those moments of... We usually have thought of ourselves as I would never be one that would, and then once I start, now I have to do a whole reorg of who I am. Because lo and behold I had thought I would hate that, and I loved it, that could be on any kind of thing in the spectrum.
But it's just recognizing, when you start to feel that I get turned off so quickly, bring it up then, and have this pre-planned with him of, okay, I really want to test this out, and just see if I can move the needle a little bit.
And we may not get all the way to the level you're hoping for, but most of the time I'm going to speak for a lot of higher desires in whatever context this might be. If the trend is going towards something more positive, as I see it as the higher desire, that's a win, that's a good thing, and I need to reevaluate how I interpret movement.
Not that it's just full on, "We got exactly what I wanted to do." We move towards something, together. Because lo and behold, this is what I've seen all the time, this is what I've seen in my life with you Pam is, I've had these thoughts of, "I really want to make it to this level with you in a sexual realm, or a marital realm." Or whatever.
And once I start getting this idea, where we're a team on this, we're moving towards this, I reevaluate, I don't even know if I want what I thought wanted now.
Pam Allan: But it's just fun to move along-
Corey Allan: Because the journey is actually better than the destination, I thought, because that could be hollow. Because a lot of times when we add our fantasies into this, some of those suckers they are hollow, they're just used to titillate, and excite and energize. But when you actually get a taste of it, it's like, "That didn't satisfy near what I thought was going on in my brain."
This is what we do when we hype up something so much that there ain't no way, the reality of it will stack up against it. So this is just the idea of how do you recognize when I'm hurt, and I get turned off, own that deal with it right then and there. And just say, "Hold on, I just lost it."
And then see if he'll recalibrate, adjust, reconnect, and maybe you get back on that journey, and on that road again, or maybe you just go back to something a little different that you've done together, but you still have the connection.
That rebuilds trust, that just builds trust, it's a different level of ability to recover, and ability to remake what you're after in real time, which to me that's the best sex there is. This week, we're honored to have a new sponsor, Sexy Marriage Radio is brought to you by Manscaped, the best in men's below the waist grooming champions of the world.
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Pam Allan: All right.
Corey Allan: Because this is a husband that says, "My wife's on a medication that has drastically reduced her sex drive, and even desire." It's made reaching an orgasm difficult, nothing right now actually peaks any sort of sexual thoughts, feelings, or desires in her as she has expressed.
She's noticed these changes in herself and recognizes that it's not normal, and she should not be feeling this way. She's working with a physician to fix this lack of desire, in an a sexual state." That's her words.
"That she's in. She's been very loving, and participating in sexual activities with me, even though they're not doing much for her. She says it feels good in the moment, even though orgasm hasn't been reached.
He's learned through our podcast, the sex doesn't always end, or need to in an orgasm, just as long as we're both enjoying the moment. My question as obviously the higher desirer here, is how can I continue to invite her into sexual moments and desires, when she's feeling and working through the nonexistent sexual desires or wants?
I've come to know and respect that the no is not a rejection of me, but just the rejection of the opportunity. How can I communicate, and invite her in without feeling like I'm pressuring her into something she doesn't desire, and that she is just servicing me to satisfy my wants.
In other words, how can I make this enjoyable for both of us? Also, on the flip side, how can one who is void of sexual desire, continue to participate in these moments, and still enjoy them, and not feel like they're just doing it, so the other will leave them alone." Oh, too common of a thread
Pam Allan: It is, given the situation she's in, it sounds like she's historically had sexual desire.
Corey Allan: Right, something shifted.
Pam Allan: And the wording he used there, when she does participate, it really does sound like she knows that something that gives them connection, she can still feel the connection, and have that bond between the two of them, even when her libido is down to zero.
Corey Allan: Right.
Pam Allan: So some of this might be him coming to grips, and realizing she might want that just for the connection, even though there's not an orgasm involved for her.
Corey Allan: Okay, yeah. And what I hear in this Pam, first and foremost is if there is some stuff that's going on physically, and she's working with a physician, and some of the medication is the culprit of this caused the change, then the first step is, are there other options of medications?
Because medications have side effects, and at least some of science, and medicine started to recognize, when they're side effects in play, some of them are... The cure is worse than the disease, right?
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: So there's this element of keep working with the physician, what else is out there? Because physicians don't know everything too, and so sometimes getting a second opinion of, "Hey, this matters to me, be an advocate for your sex life." And this is for her and for him.
But the flip side of this, that you're picking up on too, is I hear a man that's trying to operate on both sides of the equation, when it comes to his sex life. "I want what I want, and I want you to want what I want too, but I want you to want it for you." Right?
And this is where we can get off the rails in every marriage. Because I read the map of my spouse as she's just placating, she's just giving in for me, she's just being here for me. And yes, this is a perilous slope, or a tricky needle to thread, if you will on, "Is it placating to get you off her back, or is it placating because she really wants to?"
And those can be misinterpreted, but those can also be read very cleanly, and so how do you address what is between you better, to see it as, is it okay for a spouse to be available for another spouse of their own choosing, and it still be gracious, and loving, and tender, and marriage edifying?
Pam Allan: Yes.
Corey Allan: Absolutely, it can. And this is when a lot of times, the higher desire husbands get in their own way, because they want a full blown, totally aroused, in it for herself, kind of a sexual encounter with their wife, when that doesn't always happen.
Pam Allan: No.
Corey Allan: But you also have to realize, does it even happen for you? Are you going after it for what you want, versus, "Yeah, but I want you involved with this too." And so you kind of get in your own way, rather than being much more bold, and seeing if that brings about a different responsive level.
Because your map is the same, this is what we talked about on the... Academy coaching call was last night, as we're recording this, which happens every month. And so if you're not a member of the SMR Academy, come join us, because it's a lot of fun.
There are times... I use the analogy of, we could have set up the stage to where we both have kind of created this alliance, the sex is likely going to occur that night, there's been some stuff that's gone on throughout the day.
But then things get in the way, and it could get to where it's like, "I don't know if it's going to happen or not, I'm still maybe really interested, but as I'm reading you, you're a little distracted." Maybe not, there's some signals being sent, and it's really easy to have it torpedo the idea.
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: And so as you're coming out, and walking to the bed, I read you, I know, I think, "Oh, this is going to happen, or it's not." Because of the map I've got.
But just because I have a map of somebody, that's based on fact, and it's based on history, and so it's got a lot of accuracy in it, doesn't mean in that moment though, you're not reexamining, and challenging yourself to where, "I kind of have lost it, but I want to give it a go, because I know I could maybe get into it."
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: Or, I want to just be available for you, and that's a giving loving thing, and so a lot of times, it's just realizing we get in our own way, because we expect what we expect without acknowledging I'm with a full grown, separate person, that needs to handle themselves better too.
And so if they want to be involved in something, how do I just bring myself to bear better, and see if sometimes that creates a different level of responsiveness?
Pam Allan: Absolutely.
Corey Allan: Right? Because there's a difference... Okay, this is something I've not ever done on the air with you, but let's talk about this, see if this lands on you in real time, as the lower desire spouse.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: That if there's an element of the common evening is unfolded, where sex isn't necessarily on your radar, but it is on mine, and there's been hints, and it's more likely going to have the opportunity of happening, when it comes time to bed time. So if I was to, "Hey, are you ready for bed?"
And that's a signal of, you hear that as, "Okay, it's finally time to maybe have sex, maybe not." Whatever, it wasn't real overt of a signal of mine, it was kind of a weather balloon.
But if I walk over to you, put my hand out and say, "Mrs. Allen, let's go to bed." Does that strike you a little different, as an invitation towards something that could occur, versus a, "Hey, you want to head back to bed?"
Pam Allan: I would honestly say that both of those are more about, I'm really tired, and that says to me... Because you typically want to go to bed before me, because you're tired before me now, which is the flip.
Corey Allan: That's a different map than what we used to have.
Pam Allan: But quite honestly, both of those, neither of them say sex to me, neither of them do, they both say, do you want to go to bed, because that's exactly what you asked.
Corey Allan: Okay. Well, in real time I'm rewiring my map, and we'll be using that move in the future.
Pam Allan: Right? Because I never-
Corey Allan: I get you. But there's just a difference, do you see the subtleties in how-
Pam Allan: I hear the subtleties, yes.
Corey Allan: How we do these things. And we get in our own way, because what I want is absolutely of us being involved. I think most every married husband, and wife that is interested in a vibrant sex life wants that. They realize just a servicing placating, that's a slow cold death in a lot of ways to a vibrant sex life.
So you want people that are both involved, but it's just recognizing, I can't work both sides of the street on this. I've got to just handle mine, and so if I want something that's better, and more inviting, and I know what I'm up against with my wife, who's lost a lot of libido and desire, does that mean she's lost all responsiveness? I don't know.
Does it take her longer to get going? Because this happens to a lot of women as they age, it takes longer to get going, the lubrication changes when menopause hits, or pre-menopausal happens, and so do you have the ability and the wherewithal to overcome these things, and see your way through it, because on the other side of it, is the Nirvana more likely of what you're looking for.
And the point is, how do I just hold onto myself better as I'm getting into this, knowing I'm putting good pressure on my spouse, not limiting the pressure on her, because what I want is something that is going to involve them, there's no way around that pressure.
And so I can't make it to where... Because this is the one thing we hear all the time, let's end it with this. You hear the questions of, "How do I X, without my spouse feeling Y?"
Pam Allan: Yeah, no matter what, no matter what.
Corey Allan: And you can't.
Pam Allan: Yeah.
Corey Allan: It's, "How do I X to the very best of my character, integrity, and less attachment to outcome?"
Pam Allan: Period.
Corey Allan: Right? That's my path.
Pam Allan: They can't have anything to-
Corey Allan: And then I can maybe be an ally alongside my spouse, as they are seeking what's their side of the equation better. I'm continually amazed Pam, that the topics that come in to 214-702-9565, or email@example.com that there are so many different angles we can take, on the same kind of topics, or the same kind of questions.
Pam Allan: Yeah, definitely.
Corey Allan: And part of it is because of the uniqueness of people, but there's nuances in their subtleties in a person's experience, that allow a different take, a different insight, or even a different thought process between us about it. But I hope people realize that the more we can look at things through different lenses and different angles, the more likely we can realize their solutions.
This is one of the things I loved with this whole concept of differentiation, is when I can handle myself better, elegant solutions are more likely appear. And it may not solve it, but it's going to be a step forward.
And that's what we hope each and every week that you spend with us helps you navigate in your life, and in your marriage. So this has been Sexy Marriage Radio, thanks for taking the time out again this week to spend it with us. Can't wait to see you again next time.
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