Corey Allan: Coming up next on The Passionately Married Podcast.

Mark Rosenfeld: We as men do virtually everything that we do on a feedback basis from women. We build bridges. We create businesses. We give value. Would we really do anything if it wasn't for women? Would we get out of bed? What's kind of the point of all this? What are we doing all this for in the end?

Corey Allan: Maybe so.

Mark Rosenfeld: I think we'd probably just drink ourselves into a stupor and jump off bridges or do high risky things until we wiped ourselves out pretty quickly if it wasn't for having women around.

Corey Allan: You've probably heard, Pam, the phrase, size matters, or size doesn't matter.

Pam Allan: Yes, I've heard that phrase.

Corey Allan: So over the last few decades, according to trends in male reproductive health, sperm quality and testosterone levels have declined in the past few decades.

Pam Allan: Sperm quality, okay.

Corey Allan: Yes, and testosterone. There's an impact on male reproductive systems, which then led Michael Eisenberg, MD, professor of urology at Stanford Medicine, he wondered what else might be changing, so he went out and did a study published on Valentine's Day in The World Journal of Men's Health. They compiled data from 75 studies between 1942 and 2021, and it found that the average erect penis length has increased by 24% over the last 29 years.

Pam Allan: Penis length?

Corey Allan: Yes.

Pam Allan: Okay. So how does that correlate to ...

Corey Allan: It doesn't.

Pam Allan: Where's quality?

Corey Allan: These are just, that's some of the trends that's happened on the reproductive hormonal side.

Pam Allan: Fun facts.

Corey Allan: Has gone down, but apparently, size is going up, so we got that going for us.

Pam Allan: Okay, fun fact for the week.

Corey Allan: And so you have have that going for you, apparently.

Pam Allan: I don't know that sperm quality is something we want to say declining is something we want to have going forward.

Corey Allan: No.

Pam Allan: What does that mean for our kids?

Corey Allan: Well, or lack thereof, potentially as we go on down the road.

Pam Allan: Scares me.

Corey Allan: Well, this is Passionately Married Podcast, alongside my wife, Pam. We're having honest conversations to try to help frame your conversations and actions that you can take in your marriage to propel life forward. If you're new to the show, check out the starter packs. These are episodes arranged by topics or best of, and you can go to passionatelymarried.net/starter. And if you have some feedback, let us know. 214-702-9565. You can leave a voicemail there or text that number, or email us at feedback@passionatelymarried.net.
So today's one of those interesting days with the show that this is a guest, Mark Rosenfeld, that he is an Australian guy that is known as a relationship coach. He's got quite a platform on YouTube, and he really focuses on women and the dating and the relationship world. And so he has a book out there, Make Him Yours. And he does a lot of really good creative things to help women when it comes to just dating and enhancing their relationships. And so this today, he joins me. And what was interesting about this one, Pam, you've heard this, so-

Pam Allan: I have. Yeah.

Corey Allan: We just jumped right in. There was no small talk. There was no banter. We just actually started the conversation. Soon as we got on, I hit record. We were off and running in a conversation about ... I mean, the way I'm framing this is just this is a conversation about men and women because we kind of go all over the place with it. But it was a fun dialogue on just: How does he see things? How am I seeing things?

Pam Allan: Well, and it's an interesting dynamic in talking about, I think there's good information there for women to hear about men and vice versa. A comment of vulnerability versus weakness, and you'll hear that when you listen to the show, that there's some good things, just food for thought. I mean, his focus is more on women in the dating world, but this is relationships in general. All this stuff applies to married life and how our relationships are, and the comments about for a husband, it's harder to take feedback from a wife than it is your friends. I mean, there's some good data in there for us to think about when we're talking, when we're going through all kinds of life scenarios with our spouse.

Corey Allan: And on today's episode, this is the regular version, is this conversation, and then it just continues on into the extended. And so if you want to catch the whole conversation, you want to join us at passionatelymarried.net/academy. That's how you can join the extended version, which means there's no ads, and it's longer conversations. And join the academy and you get access to a really cool group of people. And so this was a fun dialogue. It was one that after it was all done, it was like, wow, that went completely-

Pam Allan: Yeah. Can we keep talking?

Corey Allan: Differently than I was expecting it to just because it did not follow the normal schedule that we follow all the time, so all that's coming up on the show. It could, yeah, because this is the one thing I have. So tell me if I'm wrong on this, Mark. And maybe this is something we need to actually be recording. Well, I am recording. I can put this in here. But so some of the work I do, I do a lot with husbands. I do these husband mastermind groups, helping men just be better men because the best aphrodisiac in married life in my opinion is character and consistency. That's what creates more energy in life. And I kind of get the same sense as you do, a lot of that aimed towards women of, it's about honesty. It's about being true to you. It's about living your character. It's not about playing or posing. It's staying in your lane of who you uniquely are. Right?

Mark Rosenfeld: Right. 100%.

Corey Allan: Okay. So it seems like all the stuff I have come across, because I've done a lot of over the years, looking back at the red pill, blue pill, the player mentalities, all the different things that you can get just statistically speaking in dating, you can find somebody to date. But that doesn't necessarily apply to married life. It can, but it doesn't.

Mark Rosenfeld: I think, I don't know if we want to dive into this. I think there's sort of an interesting conversation there about, particularly for men, with women now having incomes, with women now being able to meet some of their needs themselves, as opposed to say 60 years ago, and you can tell me if you disagree. My experience working with women is that women are still looking for some of those traditional pieces. They still want to feel safe. They still want to feel taken care of physically, financially. But because women now have their own incomes, because they have four walls, a lock on their door, because they can do some of that themselves, the weight has shifted a little bit. And I notice that women are now much more aware, especially women when they enter their 50s, and we're seeing when divorce happens, we're seeing women are the primary drivers.
The emotional needs, that side of the spectrum, if it used to be 10%, it's a much bigger number now, whether it's 30%, 40%, 50%, it depends on the individual. But the reasons that women are coming to relationships is a little bit different now. There's that extra set of sort of emotional needs and emotional pieces that they want to get out of their relationship, and obviously, a marriage. And I think it's tricky for men, because men are kind of adapting to this now. Women have had incomes in been in the workforce really properly for 50 years. And men are starting to go, "Hm. On the one hand, when I'm in dating, women really appreciate me when I take charge, when I make decisions, when I'm sort of playing a bit more of a traditional role, when I'm strong and when I'm taking names in life and going out there fearlessly and being authentic." And whether it's authentic in his life or authentic with her, it's a very attractive path or frame.
But it's almost like when you get to relationship, you need to have both gears. There are plenty of women who say, "My husband's kind of lost his spark. My husband's lost his drive. He's comfortable now, and if I'm being really honest, I'm less attracted to him now." And then 10 years of that, it's like, "Well, now I want a divorce, or I'm tempted to cheat on my husband, and I'm getting these feelings that I want to stray." But on the other hand, I also talk to women who say, "Actually, my husband is still attractive to me. He still has that drive. But I'm either getting ... There's either toxic patterns happening, I'm getting some of this unprocessed trauma placed on me, or maybe he's losing authenticity in other ways and straying, or not knowing how to be with his emotions to such an extent because he was never cultured that way, that's like I don't feel the emotional connection."
I think it's a tricky balance for men to get right. It's kind of like do all this stuff right, be attractive, but then have this other gear that you can occasionally, not too much, but occasionally go to so that you can provide some of those emotional needs. Don't be more emotional than me, but be emotional enough to get my emotional needs met while still being a man. It's a tricky balance for men in just taking inaudible into a relationship.

Corey Allan: Look, what comes to my mind with this, Mark, is the idea that Brene Brown does the vulnerability begets vulnerability, Daring Greatly, this is kind of where she kind of made her mark was this idea. And I remember listening to one of her talks that's alluding to what you're describing, that she was talking about the importance of vulnerability, and a husband and wife came up after her talk. And you know what I'm talking ... You know where I'm going with this. Right? And it was this whole, "I don't know if I want my husband being that vulnerable because it kind of changes my perception of him. If he's too vulnerable, it takes away some of that solidness, that strength, that bravado," that whatever that endeared her in the first place. So I totally understand what you're describing of it. It's tricky for both genders.

Mark Rosenfeld: It is, it is. And certainly you could say, "Well, women also do need to be more comfortable in their vulnerability and giving feedback to men around this." But I think especially when it's chronic, when it's happening all the time, and when the woman starts to perceive that instead of vulnerability, what I'm getting is quote, unquote, weak or victim behavior, which is really not his most authentic energy as a man. When it goes down that line, it can become honestly unattractive to women. And I think it's hard because when you're in the dating market, you kind of get that feedback immediately. Right?

Corey Allan: Right.

Mark Rosenfeld: If a guy goes into the dating market and he does those behaviors, he's not getting second dates. He's often, if sex is something you're open to early on, that's not happening for him. He's basically not doing very well. But sometimes those difficult conversations and that feedback, you would think, wow, we've been together five years now, we know each other. We can talk to each other. But sometimes it goes the other way. It's easy to say stuff in dating when there's not so many ... Mistakes aren't so high. Things are not so scary, and you don't really know each other that much. But when you're so much closer in a relationship, it's like as a woman: How do you give a man that feedback that, yeah, you are falling into patterns of your weaker self, that you are losing some of that drive, that authenticity that attracted me to you in the first place?
It's hard to give that feedback, especially because women are typically more empathic. They have more of their mirror neurons. But if they're not able to give that feedback, and if the man doesn't figure it out, then they just slowly become less attracted to their partner or their husband, which is really sad.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And some of this is the state of a long-term relationship. That's some of the risk of it too, of we become complacent. We become where we know each other too much, where we see ... Because I almost hear you describing this, Mark, as the idea of this is figuring out that sweet spot of: How am I being me while being influenced by my partner too? I'm speaking their language and their pressure to help me evolve to something is there, as well as, wait, this is still also quintessentially who I am, and as I'm designed, or wired, or cultured, or whatever.

Mark Rosenfeld: I loved how you talked about differentiation in one of your recent podcasts. And when we grow up as kids, we're obviously dependent on our parents. And then we go through a phase where both as young children, and then obviously as teenagers, where we realize, oh, I can do things separately. And it's a challenge to lean back into interdependence and to be close to someone while still being differentiated. I think that's one of the great growths that relationships can teach you is: How can I actually still maintain myself? Because let's be real, it's kind of easy to do it when you're single. You don't have anyone to inaudible. You don't have anyone sort of asking you, I need this from you, I would like this from you. You don't really have to set too many difficult boundaries with someone you really love. Family maybe, but not intimate relationships.
So it's a bit easier, but then when you go towards relationship, you've got this different type of growth, where if you have a pattern of, say, people pleasing, if you have a pattern of not speaking up, maybe if you have a pattern of not being introspective on some previous trauma or something, it's a lot harder to deal with that when you're close to someone because they can really see it. And especially as a man, I don't know if you've ever had this, and this could be a little bit of my own somewhat avoidant attachment style, but it's so much easier to feel like if we can go away and deal with something shameful on our own, or just kind of be away, if we have a failure, if there's some shame we need to process, it's kind of easier to go and do that in a corner, or in a cave, where someone can't really see you. And then you come back and you're stronger and processed it.
But doing that in a marriage when someone can see it, and is close to you, it's scary. And as we were speaking about earlier, can trigger some of those: Well, is my wife going to see this as weakness? Is she going to be less attracted to me? There's that kind of balance as you were talking about that Brene Brown refers to. How vulnerable am I allowed to be before I cross a line of kind of losing my authentic masculine drive and masculine traits?

Corey Allan: Yeah. And it's almost ... I just had this quote sent to me just this week, or last week, I guess it was, of what we're talking about, that vulnerability is an element of disclosing who you are so that they can experience you and feel you. But then that can easily creep over into emotional dumping, which is a vomiting of your emotions and venting and everything that goes along with it, where it's just like, "I'm just offloading all of this, not for the purpose of you understanding me." It's more for the cathartic release almost, and so there's a difference in these two because vulnerability is sexy, emotional dumping is yuck.

Mark Rosenfeld: Right, right.

Corey Allan: That doesn't provide much in the long run at all.

Mark Rosenfeld: Yeah. And vulnerability takes so much courage. It's a sign of strength, but it's different to the traditional strength that is sort of putting walls up, pushing back, being unaffected. Vulnerability is kind of opening doors, letting walls down, and actually being affected. But it can cross that line into: Are you just dumping on me now? Are you just venting your emotions? And that's not really attractive to anyone. Is it? And that's why I think we need to get that feedback from the world. But when we're not single anymore and we're not getting the consistent feedback from our dates, you go out on a date and do that, as I say, you're not getting a second date.
But to get that feedback from your partner, not only is it harder for the partner to deliver, but I think especially for a man. When it's coming from a woman, we can take I think feedback that's a little bit harsher from the bros, from the guys like, "Man, get your stuff together. You're better than this. Pick it up. What are you doing? It's unattractive." We can kind of handle that from the guys and it doesn't quite hit us the same way. Hearing feedback from women, especially a woman that you're so close to, it can really hit our wounds as guys. It can really get into that core, if we have a core trauma, if we didn't have a good relationship maybe with our mom, if there's things there from our dad leaving early, or not being fully present.
The woman's feedback can just hit us harder, and so our ability to be in a relationship and process that and not want to just run away and not want to just go into a shame spiral, or just become a victim of it, that I think is one of the greatest masculine challenges in relationship, is taking that feedback and not letting it ... Obviously, it needs to be delivered correctly, but taking it and running with it, and not letting it hit your core character, your core self.

Corey Allan: Okay. So I want to land on this for a second with you. So what's your hypothesis on why we could take that from our bros, maybe, from another, the fellas I run with that know me, this isn't just the Friday night crew that they sort of know me. This would be some guys that I think they know me. They're in my corner. We've got some history together. They've seen me at my best and at my worst, possibly. What is it that makes it to where that is ... I have a hypothesis too, but I'm curious what yours is. That makes that land easier than when a woman that knows me, because I'm using this in a marital context, what is it makes it easier to hear that than it does from a wife?

Mark Rosenfeld: Honestly, man, I think it's mostly biology. We as men do virtually everything that we do on a feedback basis from women. We build bridges. We create businesses. We give value. Would we really do anything if it wasn't for women? Would we get out of bed every morning? What's kind of the point of all this? What are we doing all this for in the end?

Corey Allan: Maybe so.

Mark Rosenfeld: I think we'd probably just drink ourselves into a stupor and all jump off bridges or do high risky things until we wipe ourselves out pretty quickly if it wasn't for having women around. So you would know that in a relationship, a woman's feedback is how we see blind spots. It's how we have feelings specifically, is how we know if we've affected her positively or negatively. Appreciation goes along, oh, I've positively affected her feelings. Great, do that again. Negative feedback, or you affected my emotions in this way, allows us to consider if we want to change our behaviors, et cetera. So I honestly think a lot of it is biology.
The other piece is that when you've got someone so close to you, that person is now meeting a higher percentage of your needs. So let's say for example, your wife is meeting, for a man, I mean it's probably 70 plus percent of his emotional needs, most of us guys are not so good at having those things with our guy friends. So you have someone who has a much higher stake in your emotional needs. And so when your buddies say it, not only do you not have that biological basis, but your best mate might be meeting 20% of your emotional needs, 30%, maybe 40% if you're really good with your best mate. Another mate might only be 10%. Your woman's meeting 60% or 70%. So I think between biology and the fact that she is meeting a much higher percentage, it is easier to feel more scared at that point because essentially, you have more to lose. That's my hypothesis, so I would love to hear yours.

Corey Allan: No. I think there's some real overlap on the way I would think of this too because I hear this as I can hear it from another guy differently, but it almost lands, it's the same language, if you will, that there's a drive, there's a bond. There's not that undercurrent. There's not the other side of the coin as emphasized as much. It's the drive. It's the go out and conquer. There's an innateness in there. But I think when a wife sends it to me, it hits on, it brings that other side of the coin into the equation, which can scare me. It can frighten me. And it also puts into jeopardy the possibility of not having her available. Right? inaudible.
If she's pointing out something to me that is true because the reason, from my experience with my wife for 29 years now, that times that Pam scares me the most are the times when what she's calling out in me has large percentages of truth associated with it. Right? She's seeing it accurately. It's not the whole story because obviously she skews it to her side and how it completely impacts her. But there is a percentage in there that is absolutely true. And now all of a sudden, this puts me in the predicament of, and this is where I think the differentiation growing up in marriage comes into play, now I'm in this element of this crucible of: How do I honor and give credit to what she's pointing out, and see it, I could evolve and be better and grow? But I don't have to get to exactly her paradigm, but I do need to move towards it because it's better for me. Right?

Mark Rosenfeld: Yep.

Corey Allan: This is the way for an easy, practical example, most, maybe several married people, maybe your experience has been this too, Mark, that driving for some reason, I've even seen some of these memes out there in social world, that I drive like this, and it shows a guy just kind of driving, he's real casual. But wife thinks I drive like this, and it shows this, he's just chaotic, out of control, risk-taker, going to jump off bridges and go to the ... And there's that element that plays out between us. And what I've recognized is she's not wrong with her experience.

Mark Rosenfeld: Right.

Corey Allan: Right? It's hers.

Mark Rosenfeld: That's her real experience.

Corey Allan: Right. How do I adjust to acknowledge that experience, not just make sure I'm totally slowed, accommodating, so that she completely feels safe? Because I don't know if you possibly can do that in today's day and age.

Mark Rosenfeld: And would she even want it if you did that?

Corey Allan: Okay. That's fair, because I've just noticed one of the things I've had to do better is whenever we go on ... She helps me navigate someplace, we've traveled all over the world at times, and when we get in stressful situations and I'm a little heightened, boy, I don't take feedback well sometimes. Right? Even when it's positive, even when it's helpful, I'm still on edge. I'm anxious. Right?

Mark Rosenfeld: Yep.

Corey Allan: And so what I see that now is, it's not about her having to deliver it differently. It would be great if that kind of evolves and we both come to this place. But it's me recognizing and being better at, she points something out and me rather than, "Oh, I know," it's me going, "Thanks," even if I knew it. I don't have to ... It's not a one up, my way, your way, tension, it's more of it's tension, but yeah, thanks, you're right. And then I kind of evolve, and I shift, and I go and that's more collaborative, sort of. It's still combative.
I think there's still some combativeness in there. But I think that's kind of the dilemma that makes it different when it's male, female, versus if it's two dudes. If you and I are in the car and we've got a long time history with each other, and we know each other pretty well, you'd be like, "Dude, you knucklehead, you just missed the turn." I'm like, "Shut up, man," even though you're right, but we can kind of play it off each other a little bit better, and it doesn't land as deep.

Mark Rosenfeld: Right, right. And talking there about receiving the feedback from that sort of calm, cool place, and understanding, look, even though we might be in different places on this, I think my driving's here, she thinks my driving's here, I'm not being sort of activated in my trigger state by her feedback. I'm receiving it as a collaborative effort.

Corey Allan: Right. To me, that's what relationships are designed for, is that's the crucible, as Dr. Schnarch would refer it, is I put myself in situations with somebody else, it's going to challenge me, no way around it.

Mark Rosenfeld: Right, because you're always going to have that difference. There's no getting around that. And I think it's almost a little bit when you're moving ... If we shift our focus to a bit earlier, it's a little bit like moving into a house together. And in that first couple of years of the relationship, there's going to be so many differences that you didn't realize in the first few months of dating. And when you move into a house with someone you go, "Oh, my God. She's messy in the bedroom," or, "Oh, my gosh, he doesn't do the dishes until the next morning." There's all these things you don't realize. And as you go further along, there's always going to be clashes.
Conflict is sort of seen by some people, not by yourself and your listeners, I'm sure, but by some people as a dirty word. And I understand because so many of my clients have never experienced healthy conflict. They go, "Conflict, oh, my God. That's my parents arguing. Don't want that in my relationship." But conflict is one of the healthiest things you can have in a relationship because it means that two people are in full expression. And your ability to just sit with that together and be. Hey, we're different in this spot. And as Dr. Guttman talks about, this is just an acceptable long-term difference. You're probably never going to drive exactly like she wants. She's probably never going to drive exactly like you want. But it's one of those things where we go, "Hey, we have a conflict here. We appreciate each other's position on it. And we get on with our relationship and continue working as a team through it." It's a lot of growth to do that, and it's a growth you don't really have to deal with when you're single.

Corey Allan: No, and I get it because: Don't we all want just a level of comfort zone living, if you will? That's why when we're alone, it's easier to do that. I can create my environment that's conducive to my comfort. But when I have somebody else doing the same thing, there we go, we've got problems because I'm comfortable with clothes just at the foot of the bed because I'm going to work out in the morning, or maybe I'll get around and take care. But it's just I'm comfortable with that, whereas my partner would be like, "No, I'm not. It has to be ordered and in place." And so we're both fighting for competing comforts.

Mark Rosenfeld: Yeah. And I love that idea of staying out of your comfort zone in your relationship because I'm sure I've sort of heard you talk a little bit about this. When we're dating, we have this beautiful balance of, we get kind of the highs of seeing each other, and then we get the lows of missing each other. And there's sort of this constant, when we're together, I'm really present with you, I'm putting effort into you. And then I go away and focus on other priorities, and we kind of miss each other. And you can lose those polarities when you live together, when you get comfortable. You lose the presence, and the time together is not as real, or intense, or as exciting. Anthony Robbins says, "Just date at six years like you did at six months, just do all the same stuff, and you'll be fine." Right?
But not only do we lose some of the presence, we lose some of the time apart, and I don't know if you agree, or listen to a lot of Esther Perel's work, but I've certainly found with certain clients, when they've got that really present time, then creating some space around it, a lot of it is essentially just going back to dating. It's saying, "Hey, sometimes I have other priorities, and you're not the priority right now. Obviously, if it were an emergency or something, you would be. But I have other priorities in my life." But then on the flip side, when we have that present time, it's really juicy. So again, you have a sort of wave pattern that comes very naturally to us in dating, but it's so easy in relationships to kind of get in that comfort zone, and the comfort zone really, it can be nice.
But I had one of my highest, most respected coaches say to me the other day, he said, "Mark, do you want to know the way to ruin someone's goals, absolutely take them out?" I said, "What is that?" And he said, "Just bring them over to your house, give them great food, great entertainment and comfortable accommodation, and you'll just take them right out of their goals." And I thought, "Gee, that's so interesting." When we're too comfortable, as we can get in a relationship, we really can settle, and we need to, as men especially, we need to remember to be proactive in leading parts of the relationship so that we can have that beautiful balance of, I'm going to be really present with my person here, with my woman here. And then when I'm not with her, I do have other priorities and I do set boundaries. And I can differentiate. And women won't always like it, at least this has been my experience, but they will certainly respect that in a partner. Tell me if you disagree.

Corey Allan: No, I don't disagree at all. I'm just thinking that I think that the reverse is true too, that a husband can respect that in a wife.

Mark Rosenfeld: Yeah, 100%.

Corey Allan: That she has other priorities. Right? Whether it be a job, whether it be hobbies, or friends, or kids, or whatever, where it's like, "You know what, honey? You're on the back burner for right now. I'm taking care of this."

Mark Rosenfeld: That's so attractive.

Corey Allan: I'm doing this.

Mark Rosenfeld: It's so attractive.

Corey Allan: I think it can be. And again, I think we're talking about this whole ... Mark, I've kind of come up with the idea in my mind that makes sense is, we live life in all the different systems and dynamics we live within, and the elements of the bell curve, that we've got a lot of room in the middle here, when we go to the extremes on either end, I've got problems.

Mark Rosenfeld: Yeah. That can be a inaudible.

Corey Allan: Outlier, inaudible things. Absolutely.

Mark Rosenfeld: inaudible area of life.

Corey Allan: But I've got a lot of variable in the middle because there's some people that we don't need as much together time, or as much away time, to still have that energy between us because I love Esther Perel's statement of our erotic energy and our passion largely resides in the space between us. I mean, that's the mission we've got with Passionately Married now, of cultivating that space between us, cultivating that conversation between us because that has to be honored to create that life giving aspect of what marriage can be for the long haul.

Mark Rosenfeld: And I think that's one of the greatest growth of relationships. Isn't it? There's certainly growth in being single. You challenge yourself. The dating market is always a challenge. And there's no question there is growth and self-improvement available there. But it's a different growth and self-improvement compared to what you get in marriage. And I think once you kind of are doing pretty decently in dating, when you're single, you've improved yourself, it's one of those things that can have diminishing returns. It gets less fun and less fulfilling the longer you do it. And you start to realize, well, actually, when I connect with someone really amazing from being, quote, unquote, good at dating, I've met someone amazing now who challenges me, who grows me. You start to go, "I don't want to lose this person. I want to keep growing with this person." And that's where those relationship challenges kick in, and having some of these difficult conversations that you're talking about and differentiating with each other and setting boundaries when you're scared to do that because you're so close now, you definitely can't get that kind of growth from just staying in the singles market.

Corey Allan: Well, that's that element too. You're talking about it's easier to have a comfortable zone when we're alone because we don't have that feedback saying, "Hey, you do recognize what's going on here? Do you recognize if you just exist on TV dinners and binging Netflix every night for the rest of your life, it's going to shorten your life dramatically?" Right?

Mark Rosenfeld: Yes.

Corey Allan: So there's a pressure there of, oh, hold on. You're right. Maybe I need to lean into this discomfort, take on a challenge, do something that truly does expand my comfort zone. So, man, this is one of those conversations that I come across them every so often, Mark, but where it's just kind of this energy of there's just a kindred-ness and a like mindedness, and an overlap enough that it just flows. But for those that have been listening, how do they find you to get more?

Mark Rosenfeld: Yeah. Thank you, thank you, Corey. I appreciate that. Where are you from? Next time I'm in town, I'll have to drop in. If people want to find me, they can go to makehimyours.com. That's my website. Or if they just want to search my name on the YouTube channel, Mark Rosenfeld. That's F-E-L-D, Mark Rosenfeld. You'll find heaps of stuff there.

Corey Allan: Perfect. And I'll put all that in the show notes. So Mark, this has been a real joy. I love the overlap, and you seem to be kind of landing in the world of let's help people recognize what relationships can be, even before they're in them, rather than trying to figure out what's going wrong now that I'm in them. So kudos on the work, man.

Mark Rosenfeld: Thanks, man. Yeah. I think we're living in such an individualistic culture now, and it's so easy to go our own way, that we're forgetting that relationships when done right can be super, super rewarding, and quite frankly, are how we're designed to live as humans, so let's have more people in them.

Corey Allan: That's great, man. Thanks a lot.

Mark Rosenfeld: Thanks for having me, Corey.

Corey Allan: So it's back to back weeks now of we've had cool accents on the episode.

Pam Allan: I do love listening to the Australian, British, yeah, it's fun to listen to.

Corey Allan: There's something fun about the voices from around the globe that join the conversation, or that are doing things in the relationship, and just betterment of people world.

Pam Allan: Yeah. No matter the accent, we're still human. Right?

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Pam Allan: It's still the same issues back and forth.

Corey Allan: Totally. Yeah, because the relationships are taking place worldwide, and a lot of the dynamics we face are worldwide. They're the same because it's two people involved, and there's just tension that can come from it. And so this was a fun dialogue.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Love the synergy.

Corey Allan: And a fun conversation. Well, if you like the show, you can help us out by rating and reviewing the show on Apple Podcasts. Please follow the show there, Spotify, however you choose to listen. And also, drop a comment. If we use your comment on the show, we'll hook you up with a very special gift. But leave a comment on Apple Podcasts, your feedback and your comments help spread the word about what we've got going on, and it'll help other people too.
Transcripts are available on the show notes on each of the episode's pages. You can find all the advertisers' deals and discounts on each episode's pages as well at passionatelymarried.net. Please consider supporting those who support the show. So wherever you are, whatever part of the world you're in, because oddly enough, this was an Australian guy talking to me from the states. That was kind of cool. I was not expecting that. But wherever it is that you've hung out with us for a little bit, we say thank you and we'll see you next time.