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Fantasies About A Wife’s Past #506

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On the Regular version of today’s show …

A listener joins me on the air to work through why he fantasizes  so much about his wife’s past sexual encounters.

On the Xtended version …

We continue the conversation about fantasies but turn it towards the topics of self-control and desire.

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio,

Pam Allan: You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: So not to give it away completely on where we're heading today, but today's episode is largely all about the listeners.

Pam Allan: Yes. Yeah, it's totally about-

Corey Allan: Well, about one, or two if you count the couple units.

Pam Allan: Yes.

Corey Allan: But I wanted to start off with a shout out because you and I run... This is Sexy Marriage Radio, by the way, as the intro should have told you.

Pam Allan: Hi, Dr. Allen. I'm Pam, his wife.

Corey Allan: But you and I help lead a marriage ministry at our church called Re-Engage.

Pam Allan: Yes.

Corey Allan: And so that means any time somebody inquires, I get those emails.

Pam Allan: Yes.

Corey Allan: And so there was somebody that had just moved into town from California a couple of weeks prior, and were checking out churches. Came across Re-engage. Saw it. Inquired for some more info. I reply with the more info, and they're looking at the signature on my email. And they're like, email back right away, and just saying, "Hey. The marriage ministry sounds so great. We're excited to come check it out, and by the way, we are listeners and we love the show. We had no idea that that was you that was emailing." And my wife and I are just like, "That's Corey! That's Corey and Pam! Dude, that's awesome." So we got to meet them then, the next week.

Pam Allan: So excited. So excited. We're going to have them over for dinner soon.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. So, shout out to the listeners that we actually get to meet in-person. Another great way to meet us, and a lot of other listeners and people in the SMR Nation, is to come join us at the getaway. June 17th through the 20th, registration's open now. You can find that information at, is where you can reserve your spot.

Pam Allan: Yeah. All new classes this time.

Corey Allan: Yeah. All new content.

Pam Allan: Content. Sorry, better word.

Corey Allan: I am really excited as this is starting to take shape.

Pam Allan: Yeah, it's going to be pretty-

Corey Allan: crosstalk Building off of what we've done in the past, but if you've come before there will be enough new. A vast percentage of it will be new, and going different directions with it, kind of like we do with the shows-

Pam Allan: Kind of.

Corey Allan: Here, each and every week. But registration's going on now. Act fast because even with all of the unknowns, we've got people coming and more every day that inquire and are checking it out. And so we want you to come join us. Personal invite from Pam and I because we want to meet you.

Pam Allan: Come join us.

Corey Allan: Well, coming up on today's regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, this is a continuation of where we went last week in the extended content. Where there was an email that came in from a husband who was intrigued, if not turned on, by his wife's sexual past. And so we went in great detail in the extended content last week. So if you missed that, you're going to want to check that out by joining the extended. And you can do that at Join at the level you choose.
And so, we went into a larger dialogue with him and I sent him the episode, which he then immediately replied. And so, this week, he and I got on the air and had a dialogue continuing the conversation.

Pam Allan: Yeah, I loved this. He had listened to it, what, listened to it three times? And was just processing it in his brain and going through it. And was like, "I've got to talk this through."

Corey Allan: Right. So we just do a continued conversation based on what went on last week. And in the regular version today, is the first part of that conversation.

Pam Allan: Such great info.

Corey Allan: And then in the extended content, which is deeper, longer, and there's no ads... We continue it, but we pivot a little bit and get into the realm of self-control and desire. And what do we do with those things? Because I think a lot of times we've had it wrong.

Pam Allan: I agree.

Corey Allan: On the way a lot of us have been taught or tried to handle some of these different things that go on in our fantasy thought-life, and urges, and impulses that we have. And so, definitely not going to want to miss that. All that's coming up on today's show.
So you said you wanted to talk just a little bit too. So, what's up?

Caller: Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things... Man, I listened to y'all's response to my question. And I appreciate it so much, man. And I'm going to be honest with you, I think a lot of what you guys said resonated just because it's something that I've been praying with for quite a bit. You know what I mean?
But I really just kind of sat in this place of, "Okay, am I crazy for having these thoughts?" On one hand, there is definitely a moral dilemma there. No question about it. But on the other hand it's, "Okay, am I crazy for having these thoughts?" Because these are regular.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Caller: Okay? And so I'm going to give you just a little bit of a background to me. Corey, I am minister. I have worked for the church for 20 years.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Caller: I read a lot on The Theology Of The Body of Pope John Paul II. I've done a lot of just personal intercessory prayer when it comes to all of this stuff, man. When I was 12-years-old, man, I walked in on two guys that really meant the world to me watching pornography.
And when I walked in, I saw what they were watching. And I was like, "What the heck is that?" It was one of those things is, Corey, I can still visualize that image today.

Corey Allan: Sure.

Caller: And I'm 41-years-old.

Corey Allan: Sure.

Caller: And I was 12-years-old. But what really kind of put me in this place was the way that my uncles responded to me. And those guys meant a lot to me. And the way that they responded to me, Corey, was bad. I ran out of the house. I ran off into the woods, and leaned up against a tree and just cried.
And finally, my mom was looking for me. And I came out, and she was like, "What's wrong with you?" I'm like, "Nothing." And for years and years, I suppressed that, but I never forgot that image. When I was, probably ninth grade, I was in a relationship with a girl and we became very sexually active. And I just still, to this day, though I've had a lot of healing from it, it doesn't go away. I still have struggled with those images.
And up until just a few years back, I would say a few years probably seven or eight years now, really through healing, got out of pornography. My wife doesn't know that. My wife wasn't aware that all of that... She knew that it was a problem in the past, but it's one of those things where you-

Corey Allan: She wasn't aware of the extent of it you mean?

Caller: No.

Corey Allan: Even going into the marriage you're talking about?

Caller: No. No. No. Because it was something that would come and go. It wasn't something that was consistent. It wasn't any of that.

Corey Allan: crosstalk It fell under the auspices of, "I can handle it, so I don't really need to let it all be out."

Caller: I can figure it out. She's not going to understand. I even got some guidance, and saying, "Look, she doesn't understand. If it was something that was ongoing regular, yeah." But if you're really trying to overcome it, and battle it, and so forth, it wasn't something that they felt was necessary to bring into the light. Because again, much like I've heard y'all's conversation on the podcast, it's a huge place of wounded-ness. And can really cause a lot of hurt to her, and obviously I don't want to do that.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Caller: But as I continue to kind of find healing and really try to overcome it, I find myself fantasizing back into those places. So where all of this came from, my wife, Christian, growing up in the faith. She and I met doing retreats. Awesome person.
My oldest daughter was dating a guy, and I noticed that she had a hickey on her neck. And I addressed it, and I was like, "What are you doing?" Like really, "Ah..." kind of thing. My wife started talking about it. She started asking me things because I had told her about my relationship with girlfriends, 9th and 10th grade and so forth, but it was sexually active. And I had told her that prior to us getting married, just because it was heavy on my heart and I felt like I needed to do that.
But she never really told me anything about hers. Hers was always, "I'm still a virgin. I'm still..." Yeah, all of that. So I'm thinking she's perfect. So we're driving home one night, and we're talking about the issue with my oldest daughter. And she says, "Well, was this something that you did?" And I said, "So, yeah." Is it something that we did? And I said, "Well, I guess, but not really hickeys or anything." I said, "Well, what about you?" And she said, "Well, I guess some." And I'm like, "What?"
And so that kind of dove in, dude. Corey, when I tell you, it intrigued me in that moment what she had done with her boyfriends. And she said, "Heavy petting." I'm like, "Whoa, what does that even mean?" And so she started telling me, and then she was like, "No, I don't want to tell you. I don't want to talk about it." What the heck? That's just like dangling the carrot. From that moment, so we talked a little bit. She told me some things that she had done, but not anything in detail.
So since then, I have just been kind of in this place of... I want to know. I want to know more.

Corey Allan: What's motivating that? On wanting to know more.

Caller: I've sat with that quite a bit, honestly. And I really think why I want to know more is because I want to know every part of her, I think. But the way that I'm spinning it is for lustful purposes.

Corey Allan: Okay. So you want to know all-

Caller: Did that answer the question?

Corey Allan: It does. So you're kind of in the conundrum because I'm hearing this thread of walking a line that could be steered well, but also has a chance to go off the other direction pretty easily too. Right?

Caller: Yes. Pretty easily. Yes, right.

Corey Allan: So there's this element of I want to know more. I want to be involved. I want to know you... But then you get caught in this dilemma, it sounds like, of do I want to know the details? Because there's some titillation to it, and some enticement to it, and some just humanness to it.
Or do I want to know the meanings, and how you have evolved, and what you have learned from your experiences, honey. And how that's made you who you are now, which is more of the digestion of all that we've done in our life to then become the people we are. Which that seems to be the conundrum you've been in, as the way I have framed what you've written thus far.
Is I can use this for nefarious kind of fun, exciting times for myself. Or I could use this to truly know and be known.

Caller: I think you hit the nail on the head. Because honestly, and Pam said this in the extended version when y'all addressed it. She said, "I would like to know their conversations two hours after." And our conversations two hour after is we're not talking about it. We're not talking about it.

Corey Allan: That's from her saying that?

Caller: We're just not. And so both of us, honestly. I just know that we just go on with life. We just do what we do, and we just don't talk about it. And when I try to you have conversation about it, it's very quick. It's very quickly shut down and these kind of things.
And I think because she knows that it is leading towards something else. She told me a dream she had one time, and I wanted to know all the details. And all she wanted me to know was, "I had a dream." And that drives me crazy, but at the same time I want to respect her in a place where... If she wants to tell me, she'll tell me. If she doesn't, then okay. I have to be okay with that.

Corey Allan: Well, you seem to be the kind of guy that you fill in the gaps with arousing things, possibly.

Caller: Yes.

Corey Allan: Right?

Caller: Absolutely. For sure.

Corey Allan: You steer it towards the sexual arousal, desire, endorphin-inducing kind of things, when all they really are, are just gaps in some regards. They're not necessarily leaning towards the sexual even. Is that possible?

Caller: Yeah, that's very possible. Because one of the things that we have done, and this is something that we've talked about in the past by listening to one of the episodes. Is we actually have a schedule. So she knows that if any conversation comes up on Monday, it's not leading to sex.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Caller: Because that was one of the things that I really had set out. Was anytime I try to bring it up, she doesn't do it because she thinks it's leading to sex. Or if I touch her, or kiss her, or whatever, it's leading to that. And that's been really helpful actually. That's actually been joyful for both of us. And it's actually funny because I'll say something to her... I'll ask her, just being blunt, I'll ask her, "What color panties are you wearing today?" Or something like that. And she'll say, "I'm not telling you. It's Monday."
And so I'm sitting here like, "Oh man. Okay, that's right. You're right. You're right." So we have fun with it, but at the same time I don't want to hurt her. I really don't. But there's just something in me that really just is just intrigued and turned on. And I just don't know if I need to go into counseling even. If I need to really go into spiritual direction even more. And just say, "Okay, I need to really nip this. I really have to get this under control."

Corey Allan: Okay. So two questions that come to my mind, dude. One, is where this whole thing first started in our conversation. You talked about, I had these crazy thoughts. Am I crazy with these thoughts? Parse that out for a second. One would be, I have crazy thoughts. Are they crazy thoughts? Or is it crazy that you're turned on by these thoughts? What's the difference?

Caller: I think if I were to try to say the difference is what it leads to. Because when I'm processing or when I'm thinking of these thoughts, I am turned on by them. And that leads me to want to be and act selfishly. That's truly where it leads.

Corey Allan: Okay. But can you see the difference between the fact that you have these thoughts, is that crazy? No.

Caller: No.

Corey Allan: Yeah, it's not.

Caller: No, we can't help all the thoughts. Absolutely.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. And there are some things also that come along in life that truly are... "Ooh, I want to know more..." And it's just the question of how soon does that radar come off in the gut of where is this heading? What's the rationale behind it? What's the meaning... That's where we've always landed with the shows.

Caller: That's right.

Corey Allan: What's the meaning associated with this? So then the second question comes to, how is the unknown that comes up with these kinds of thoughts based on your wife's experiences. Whether she shares details or not. If you layer the theme of that over what you walked in on when you were 12, how are they similar? And how are they different?

Caller: I think one of the ways that they're similar is because of the way that they make me feel, and the way that I have encountered pornography. And I actually look at this in some ways as almost a play on those experiences. To where I'm imagining her with somebody else. I even have had thoughts of her with somebody else.
And it triggers me. Not in a bad way, in a good way. And, well, I'll say a good way, if you get what I'm saying.

Corey Allan: Well, you get turned on by it.

Caller: I do. And this is where it gets into what I've heard you guys say, and talked about it as well. It gets into a slippery slope. Where does it stop? And that's where I think that for me, I'm like, "Am I crazy?" I'm having these thoughts, I want to act on them just between she and I. And it go no further because I don't want to have a threesome. I don't want to have her with somebody else, but I do enjoy us in that fantasy, if you will, doing those kind of things. But is it a slippery slope to the point where we will be able to stop it from there? And I don't know the answer to that.

Corey Allan: Well, but you don't have to entirely have the answer to that because this is a collaboration, if you're talking about you're always wanting to steer it together. Because there are times I think when we get out into exploring some of these areas with our spouse, where I'm exposing myself. I think there can be times where my spouse is an incredibly appropriate guardrail for me.

Caller: Okay.

Corey Allan: They're holding onto themselves well enough to be able to say, "You can talk about this, but there ain't no way it's happening." And that gives you almost a little freedom, not permission, but freedom to explore your own thought-life. And know, "Okay, I'm not pushing her anywhere she's not going to go because she can stand up for herself." Which then, in turn, kind of gives me the framework to really confront me. Rather than, how do I get her to do what I want her to do?

Caller: Right.

Corey Allan: Right. I think that's the beauty of two people in a marriage-

Caller: Sure.

Corey Allan: Really standing up and challenging each other, but not judging right off the bat with each other.

Caller: Right.

Corey Allan: Right? There's a freedom to, "You know what, honey? If that's who you want to be in your own thought-life, I'm not comfortable with that. I'm not okay with that. But if you want to do that in your life, I'm not around." And then it's like, "I'm not telling you what you can or can't do. I'm just telling you what I'm going to do, and I'll base it off of what you choose."

Caller: Sure. Right.

Corey Allan: And I think when we can bring those things in the open, one of the things it does that's tremendously beneficial is it takes away some of that deceptive power.

Caller: Okay.

Corey Allan: Because when we keep things hidden, this is that whole your mom's trying to find you. What's going on? What would have happened... Don't answer this.

Caller: No, right.

Corey Allan: But what would have happened had you said, "Mom, let me just tell you what happened." Now all of the sudden it's in the open, and it goes down a completely different path then, "Nothing, Ma." And now I've just kept it secret.

Caller: That's right. That's right.

Corey Allan: And that's where those suckers fester, and they wreak kinds of havoc, which is why pornography's so prevalent. Which is why the Christian world does not like dabbling in the world of fantasy, because it's secret. Rather than, okay, can fantasy be healthy? Absolutely. Can fantasy be wholesome? Absolutely. Can wholesome fantasy even include titillating things? I think it can. Because what really matters is what do I do with it? Where do I steer it? I think that's where the Christian idea of taking thoughts captive comes into play. Of, taking something captive means I've incorporated some sort of action to it.

Caller: Sure.

Corey Allan: So I've steered it in a better direction. I've steered it towards something to where I've even said in my own marriage with Pam at times, where I'm being bombarded in the spring. And, "All the women have come out to bloom."

Caller: Absolutely.

Corey Allan: Because when it's cold, all of a sudden now they're going to wear clothes that are less covering. And I've had times where... Drives back and forth. I call Pam, say, "Baby, I am being bombarded. I can't wait to get with you tonight." Because I want to steer it to you. And she can easily say, "Well, buckle up because the bombarding's going to keep happening because I'm not interested." Or she could say, "Thank you for the honesty. Okay. Let's collaborate. Let's talk about this. Let's be around..." Because if nothing else, I don't want to think we have to get caught in these areas of I got to squash desire.

Caller: Well, and I think that's one of the biggest things. That's what I've always done. For most part, I'm like, "Nobody needs to know this part of me. Nobody needs to know this." So when I told my wife before we got married... That was huge for me. Nobody knew that. It was just she and I. That was it.

Corey Allan: Yeah. So then, let me ask you the question of... Since you're talking about you've had the history of this has always been something that's been hidden. And at least part of the fantasy stuff has maybe come out with your wife, but you're using it rather than revealing it. It's almost like you're using it as a mechanism towards-

Caller: For sure.

Corey Allan: A result, rather than let me just tell you something I struggle with.

Caller: Right.

Corey Allan: There's a different-

Caller: That's 100%-

Corey Allan: There's a different revealing of that, that sometimes that doesn't necessarily land on a wife's lap as clean as maybe you're intending it. But it's cleaner than, "Let me dig in there because I get something out of this." So I'm curious... What would happen were you to frame it in the sense of I want to just bring part of my struggle to you a little differently? Not use you as part of my struggle.

Caller: Right. Corey, that's 100% accurate. It truly is, man. Because I think that part of it goes back to the pornography. Part of it goes back to the fantasy of the pornography. And I use that with her, and she doesn't know any of that. And I fear so much telling her any of this. I really do.

Corey Allan: Yeah. Well, it's incredibly revealing, and there's hurt. There's no way around some of these revelations that will still include hurt. That is the whole two-choice dilemma struggle of... The easiest example of this would be the, "I want to tell you something, but don't get mad about it."
I don't get to control the second side of that. I only get to control the, "I feel like I need to tell you something, and it likely may hurt." And to me though, you could be in a better position if you are on the path of, "I've shored up a lot of these nefarious secret things that have been in the darkness that have wreaked havoc in my life since 12. I'm not acting out on some of these different behaviors. They really are more just in the fantasy life. And I haven't treated you well, honey, in this. I've been a little disrespecting to you with the manner in which I have framed this in my own mind. And I want to clean that up." I want to bring that out in the open, and realize it might set us back a little bit. But what it can actually create that we build on, would actually be a whole lot more solid. And more into the realm of knowing and being known better.

Caller: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things, just as I've always done. And I know I'm repeating myself now, but that's been one of the fears that I've always had, is really being vulnerable enough to reveal those areas that I still struggle with and how she would respond to that. Again, in fear of being known, but also in fear of how she would respond.

Corey Allan: Sure. Well, this is where the whole route of self-validating, self-confronting, is starting to see where I can set the level of intimacy. Because the way you're framing it right now, dude, is you're setting the level of intimacy through the lowest common denominator.
Meaning, I'll share something that'll get us deeper, but if it's scary and you could react bad, I won't because I'm too contingent on your response.

Caller: Absolutely.

Corey Allan: Versus moving towards, I really want to go deeper with this. And I realize I may open myself up to some major hurt, but I want to set the depth. And so I'm going to. I'm going to take the risk. And then you just give your wife some room to be compassionate. You give your wife some room to navigate where she needs to go. Because you guys have already demonstrated, just in our quick conversation, the capability of each of you to deal with some of these things and see your way through it.

Caller: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There have been so many times where we've been laying in bed, or just in the car, sometimes that's even a better time for us sometimes. Usually when we're somewhere, we're either with somebody or kids, or what have you. And when we're laying in bed, I want so bad to... And I love how y'all say it on the episode, is ask better questions. Have deeper meaning conversations, as opposed to this and that, and what have you.
And that's when I say, we have a great relationship. I love that episode where y'all talked about cherish. I put that in the email. Because we have a great friendship. We have a great relationship. But this is one of those areas that she doesn't know and she doesn't ask. And I don't tell her. And I just frame it, and go with it, and just try to be-

Corey Allan: crosstalk Okay. My hunch is going to be that she knows. She just can't put her finger on what it is that she knows.

Caller: I agree with you.

Corey Allan: Okay? And so, you've had this tendency, it sounds like, in your history to I will fill in unknowns into a little more of the dark side, if you will. A little more of the sexual, if you will.

Caller: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Corey Allan: She may have the tendency, which is pretty common, of I've got some things that don't add up. I've got some things that I'm curious about. I got some inklings of things, but I don't want to pull on that string because it might go a place I do not want it to go. So therefore-

Caller: Absolutely.

Corey Allan: It's just easier to not even ask those questions and keep life as it is. Which I can understand the rationale on why we do these things, but if you guys both are at the stance where you're saying, "We want to collaborate to create something better." That means you're willing to turn towards these things, and take the risks, and ask the harder questions. Or more importantly, ask yourself the harder questions and reveal your answers to each other.

Caller: Yeah. Yeah. Because in the original email that I had sent to you guys, a life fully turned on, was really that statement. Well, the more that I've prayed with this, and just kind of sat with this, yeah, that's true. But I think what I envision her turned on either would, A, be at the desire that I am, which is not a reality. Secondly would be, that a lot of the things that I have seen through pornography... Understanding that the woman's usually not the aggressor. And in our case, she is not. I want her to be the aggressor, and I tell her that. And it's just not in her nature. So when we're in those conversations, whether it be in the shower... I ask her probing questions and she kind of leans into it a little bit.
I get kind of moved with that. Because just using toys and stuff like that, it was a no, no, no, no. But then all of the sudden, she's the one who decided she wanted to do this. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh. Okay, this is awesome." And so I don't want to force it, but I feel like the more that we discuss and talk about it, the more comfortable she gets with it. So I never know if I'm like, "Okay, this is out of line. This is out of bounds." Or if more of her just getting comfortable with it is the right way to go. And that's what I've just been struggling with. What that even looks like, the life fully turned on.

Corey Allan: Well, but this is also the dilemma though that we framed in the answer originally with you. That if you're wanting a wife fully turned on, the mechanisms in which you're trying to find that isn't her.

Caller: Not the right... Right.

Corey Allan: Right. And so-

Caller: Totally.

Corey Allan: It's not something that's her in those moments. And that's that trap we get caught in. I wanted to years and years ago write an article called I'm Having An Affair. And I was going to set it all up like I was really outing myself. All this stuff has been going on behind the scenes. Nobody knew everything. And I had talked to Pam at length about this because I was going to end it all, the end of the affair I'm having is with the past memory I have of Pam, not the current Pam.

Caller: Wow. That's-

Corey Allan: And I'm living with that woman in my head, not the woman I live with. And that's a huge struggle because we can utilize the past for good or for bad. But usually, it's at the cost of the present. And you seem to be trapped in this idea of, "I really want to experience my wife fully engaged in these moments." But the manner in which you're going about it, you're missing the opportunities where she might be.

Caller: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I've even experienced her that way. And it's like, "I want to do that again, and again..." But how do we get back to that point for me-

Corey Allan: But realizing, once you're trying to do it again, you won't.

Caller: Exactly.

Corey Allan: Because that was the past.

Caller: Exactly. Exactly.

Corey Allan: So instead, it's how do you bring yourself forward more? To be more engaged in the real time yourself. Which might mean, rather than asking good questions, revealing what's going on inside you right now. See if she meets you there, and see where that goes.

Caller: Yeah. For sure.

Corey Allan: Even the whole point of, man, I'm really struggling.

Caller: Fair enough.

Corey Allan: This is that fork in the road, babe, of I normally would want to go down this darker path and use this to my advantage, which is demeaning to you. And I don't want to treat you that way. That right there is also bringing you forward in that moment. We don't usually think of that as, "Whoa, I'm so turned on by this now." But the difference becomes, I'm actually seeing who I'm in this moment with. I'm actually seeing who I'm in this bed or this shower with.

Caller: Got you. Yeah.

Corey Allan: And that's the bigger difference. Because what I'm hearing you say, and what I'm also secondarily hearing you're saying your wife is interested in is, I don't want to have sex with just the genitalia. I want to have sex with the brain that that genitalia is operated from. And the body that that genitalia is attached to. I want the whole thing. Not just the moment or the piece. And that's bringing all of us forward in other areas of our life too. To then see that play out and to come to fruition in the bedroom, or the shower in your case.

Caller: Right, right, right. Yeah. And in those moments, that's when it's beautiful. You know what I mean? It's awesome.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Caller: It's the best. No question about it. But I settle for less. We all said that here and-

Corey Allan: crosstalk Well then, dude. Man to man, stop settling.

Caller: I know. I know, right? It's like, "Okay. Pick it up and walk with it." But I just have to have these conversations. And so much of myself has just been afraid, going back to what I know that I've always done. And that is just, "Yeah. Nobody needs to know about this part."

Corey Allan: Well, then you're at a tremendous opportunity to see where do you want to go?

Caller: Okay.

Corey Allan: But I'm going to tell you flat out, man, do not blame her if you don't want to take that step.

Caller: Yeah, yeah. For sure. All right. I'm with you on that.

Corey Allan: Okay. So Pam, I love it when we get a chance to carry on a conversation with listeners. We've done this a couple of times in the past throughout the history of SMR. It's been a long time since somebody's joined me on the air, especially to this extent.

Pam Allan: I love it because it's so impactful. When we were hashing through his email last week, or anybody else's for that matter, it's always, "Well, here's how I'm hearing it."

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Right? And so when you have the conversation and can really get more of the full story, I think it hits home even more with people. Because he's totally brutally honest and putting himself out there, which is fabulous. And that just hits home with so many more people.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And if you want to hear the continuation of it, you'll want to jump into the extended content today because we keep going with this conversation. So, check that out. We have long had a tradition... For all the different people that email us at feedback of, or call in 214-702-9565, and leave us a message about what's going on.
We've always loved the fact that we get to speak directly into what's going on. We get to be invited into people's lives, into their struggles, their relationships. It's a humbling experience. But yet when we get a chance to go even deeper like we did today, and I get a chance to actually walk alongside, unpack, question, poke, prod, challenge-

Pam Allan: Yeah. I love him answering the questions that we asked last week, right? Okay, you asked. What was our conversation two hours later? Helpful information to know.

Corey Allan: I love that.

Pam Allan: Right? How do you work?

Corey Allan: And I also love the confirmation of you guys were spot on, on the way we were reading a lot of it too. But if nothing else, that's confirmation for us I think as human beings, that we're not all that different.

Pam Allan: We're not.

Corey Allan: There's a lot of things that... Man, if I'll just open up about what's going on, I can find help right around the corner, or my neighbor, or jump on the air with us. Jump on a call with me, get in my virtual office. There's all kinds of help available.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone, or you got more questions, or this has sparked something in your life and in your marriage, we want to know. 214-702-9565, Wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, thanks for taking a little bit of time out of your week to spend it with us again. We'll see you next time.