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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

Fantasies of a Third #535

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On the Regular version of today’s show …

A military wife wants to know how to encourage her husband to be interested in more romantic sex, oh, and she’s the higher desire for all the other kinds of sex as well.

A wife parents different than her husband, and his manner of parenting is a real turn off sexually.

On the Xtended version …

Our Instagram account (@sexymarriageradio) got quite a bit of pushback over a post we ran about adding a third person to the bedroom. This is my response to the reactions.

Enjoy the show!

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Announcer: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio.
You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: Welcome back for another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where we're having honest, straightforward conversations about love life, marriage, anything, and everything in between. And since this isn't on video, you can't really tell I'm trying to send a signal to my wife. She's not picking up on the signal.

Pam Allan: I'm not picking up at all on his signal. I'm not sure what message he's sending but ...

Corey Allan: That's kind of the way marriage goes a lot of times, right? Where we're talking about things, but we're also talking about other things with the body language or the facial expressions or the different aspects. And that's what gets in our way a lot of times, I think, if you talk about marriage in general. We got a whole lot of data on each other and we don't always read each other right.

Pam Allan: Yeah. We don't use the data correctly ... or, well. Well, maybe. Not correctly, but well.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And also, there's a fundamental difference on the way I perceive things and the way you perceive things. And we think that we're right in our perception rather than no, maybe not. There's a difference between us. And so ...

Pam Allan: Got to continue to be curious. What is their perception?

Corey Allan: Well, I'm curious about the SMR Nation and what's going on in their world. And the way they can let us know, Pam, is they can call us at (214) 702-9565. They can email us at feedback@ You can jump on and join us in the conversations that are taking place there. But whichever way you choose, let us know what's up. What we can do to help you, questions that may be going on in your mind. We want your questions. Because last week we did a lot to try to catch up on some of the stuff in the queue. And so we're a little closer to real time now.

Pam Allan: But still had some we missed, yeah.

Corey Allan: Yes. We still had a few left remaining, but this is ... what we want to try to do is help the nation ramp up their married life, their sex life, their bedroom. All that life is. We want it to be as best it can be. And if you like what we got going on, please spread the word. Subscribe your friends. Just go up and down the street, grab their phones, subscribe them to SMR Nation. And they too can heat up their life as well, along with you.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: Well, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is several of your questions and our answers. We've got some fun ones today. They should be different perspectives.

Pam Allan: Okay. Looking forward to that.

Corey Allan: Same kind of topics that we get a lot of times, so we can come at it from a slightly different angle.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Which, anytime you can change up the angles, that's always a good thing.

Pam Allan: That's fun.

Corey Allan: And then on the extended content of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads ... I stepped in it a little bit last week, apparently, with some of the audience out there in the Instagram land on ...

Pam Allan: Or at least from their perception, you did.

Corey Allan: The reaction that came in from a post that went on Instagram this past week on Friday, was in the shortest amount of time, the most commented post. And it was because we did a retake on something I'd written for Christians Who Curse Sometimes in their Q&A months ago, on adding a third to the bedroom.

Pam Allan: It was a fantasy world.

Corey Allan: And that whole concept of the threesomes. And so I've got some thoughts and some responses to how that all went down in the extended today. So all that's coming up on today's show.
So as we get started, here's an email that came in, Pam, that says, "Hey, Corey and Pam. I'm a binge listener and I'm so thankful for the podcast. I went through every episode. And I can't tell you how my confidence has soared just by knowing I'm not the only higher desire woman out there. I've been married to my husband for five years and we have two wonderful children. He is active duty military, and I'm a stay at home mom. So to get right to it, my husband has a hard time being truly intimate with me. He struggled with a porn addiction that was severe before we met, but eased up when we got married, although he says he still slips into it sometimes.
"Because of this, we've dealt with his porn induced erectile dysfunction, which makes him the lower desire on anything sexual. He even went so far as to call me a borderline nympho because I wanted sex so often in our first year of marriage. He barely talks to me during sex. Doesn't respond to my advances. And when he's gone, he refuses to do virtual sex, naughty messages, or pictures. When we do have sex, it's exciting and exhilarating. While I love that we hardly ever have the slow, intimate, love making sessions that I desperately crave. It makes me feel like an object of release rather than a woman he desires to woo and protect.
"Immediately after sex, he starts to make jokes or discuss what we need to do the next day. It's like he's afraid to be truly close to me and I feel like he's pushing me away. I love him and I want that emotional connection to be reciprocated. I've learned that I can only change myself, so what should I do differently? I've tried all I can think of. Staying fit, being healthy, clean, and pretty appearance, keeping things nice, domestically, a hot meal when he comes home, et cetera.
"I've tried backing off and letting him make all the advances for the last four years. And I'm fed up with being a sexual doormat. Our marriage can be better, but I just don't know what moves I need to make. How do I make myself someone he would want to be intimate with? How do I begin the dialogue about this issue with him? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for all that you do."
So ...

Pam Allan: I'm waiting for you on this one. You're looking at me for a reaction, but roll with what you got on this.

Corey Allan: Okay. So this is ... again, when we talk about higher desire, lower desire differences, and we're talking about this in the context of a wife being the higher desire, some of the dynamics are still at play the same. Doesn't matter which gender is the higher desire.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Okay. So what she's facing ... I'm hearing a couple of different things in this, as I'm listening to myself read this email again for the show. That she's a higher desire for a certain type of sex.

Pam Allan: Okay. He's higher desire for quicker, more ...

Corey Allan: It sounds like sometimes, maybe just even on the physical, but that's-

Pam Allan: She wants the slow, comfortable ...

Corey Allan: Right. But that's also changed and impacted by him, because ... and I'm projecting here. But where that impacts him on his sex life is if he's active duty military, that's a testosterone filled power world, if you will. Male and female, both. There's a different kind of a breed of people in general, that head into the military as a career. And I'm grateful for them. But it's that idea of, okay, if I'm in that world, there's a bravado that comes with it. And if I've got an issue or issues that have reared their head in my sex life, or in any kind of a thing that could threaten that identity, that mismatch will dramatically impact you.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: And so on one regard, it makes sense to me on, okay, well that would be why he could be even more reserved when it comes to wanting to go after that aspect of his life.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: Because it doesn't line up with everything else that ... where he spends his time and how he's wired, in some ways, it's not aligning at all. And so a lot of times, us as humans ... and I'll speak for males, for sure. If there's something I may fail at or have a greater likelihood of failing at, I will not have a whole lot of energy and desire to want to go after that side of my life again. Often, at least.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: And so it's this dilemma. And I think women have this too. But I think to speak for the male side of it, failure is one of those things you just absolutely are afraid of.

Pam Allan: Right. But that's where we grow, right?

Corey Allan: Agreed.

Pam Allan: When I fail, I can grow, if I use it that way.

Corey Allan: Agreed. But what she's asking, if we get back to what ... she's like, okay. So how do I handle my side of this equation better?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so she's done all of the external things in some regards, of like, I'm trying to create this environment of circumstances and situations to keep the likelihood as close to possible as I can.

Pam Allan: Right. Well, there's one that I noted was not external. And it's that she's backed off so he can take the lead.

Corey Allan: Yeah. The devil's pact is one of those real struggle.

Pam Allan: Well, I guess, I don't know, do you call that external or not? But that's totally out of her control, right? How fit she stays is in her control, but backing off so that he can take the lead ... well, if she's the higher desire, again, we've said that over and over again. Can't make them all of a sudden take the lead, initiate, do what you want to do.

Corey Allan: Trying to become the pseudo lower desire by just not pursuing where you are in the dynamic better, doesn't make them the higher desire. It doesn't flip the script, that's just the way it goes. But what I'm hearing is, how do you keep the path for her of, I need to regularly pursue. I need to be about what I want to be about. I need to go after it. That if he called you a borderline nympho, that's a move by him to get you to back off.

Pam Allan: Yeah. That's just being a reactive crosstalk Yeah.

Corey Allan: What makes being a nympho bad, in the context of marriage? What makes being one of those ... this is the same thing I say to husbands that hear from their wife, all you think about is sex. What makes that so bad and wrong? How I conduct myself matters. If all I'm ever doing, if all she's ever doing is trying to jump him ... well, okay. Is that in line and good? But the desire is not bad.

Pam Allan: Right. The desire's not bad. Obviously, a relationship is so much more than that. It's so much more than sex. It's more than that act and that being ... but for you to have a desire for your spouse, not necessarily a bad thing.

Corey Allan: So here's where it gets a little ... dicey is the word that comes to mind. Just because this'll seem like it's very precarious on, we're encouraging her to go right into the areas where she struggles and is afraid of most. Which is, I don't want to feel like a doormat with this or that I'm just an object. I want something that's more intimate and tender.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So when sex is unfolding, how does she take some conscious steps ... and I don't know how it unfolds for them. And so that's why I'm kind of framing this as a question, just kind of a global statement. How does she take some steps to slow the process down? Because if a normal couple has X amount of minutes or so of foreplay, then it transitions into intercourse or whatever the sexual act, quote-unquote is, which most often is intercourse.
Somebody signals that it's time to transition to that. One of them does, a husband or the wife. They signal enough foreplay already, let's get to the main event, quote-unquote. Which, all of it's the main event in our thinking.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So whenever that signal is sent, how does she slow it down a little bit and not follow that lead yet? Or not lead to that yet? Transition it slower.

Pam Allan: Or even if she wants that, it just doesn't have to be an immediate pounding, I guess. For lack of a better phrase.

Corey Allan: No, I get you. And then the other thing is, as it transitions, what is it that makes it more tender, loving, romanticized sexual encounters, rather than just doing the deed. And so this is where you be an active participant in the way the dance has normally gone, change up your moves. And then when it's done, set an atmosphere of talk, cuddle, hang. What are your signals you've usually sent that are along with, okay, we're done. Now it's time to move on.
Because he's sending several that she's picking up. He makes a joke. He starts talking about whatever's next or whatever. Okay. Even some of that can be intimate if I can reframe it.

Pam Allan: How so?

Corey Allan: So if there's a joke that just broke the mood of what I was feeling and experiencing in that moment?

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: Okay. It broke the mood, but what if we're still both laying in bed beside each other? And there was a little bit of a laughter or a little bit of a ... and how quickly can we realize, that didn't go in line with what I want, but it didn't ruin it. I'm still here with him. I'm still engaged. I'm still possibly connected. And we can hang out and linger with it a little bit. Or at least she can. If he gets up ... because this is one of the things I've heard before. And thinking about it, we've probably done this too, to varying degrees.
When sex is done and one of you actually is getting up out of the bed and the other is like, I'm just going to kind of sit with this atmosphere a little bit longer. Well, it's great when your partner is sitting alongside you, but you don't have to now get in a huff and roll over and head on with your day. Hang out for a bit. Set the mood a little bit differently for yourself and soak that in, and see how that impacts them as they walk away and come back by or whatever.
But it's just that element of, that's a different atmosphere and how she's approaching it in real time. Not just lodging, I really wish we coulds. Instead, it's, I'm going tos. And then you see if they join. See if they come back to it. Because sometimes we don't realize how we are complicit in the things I'm frustrated about. So I need to change my culpability in it by changing how I'm interacting to it, rather than just responding or reacting to it, right? I need to respond better.
And then the last thing is, every couple typically has opportunities. We can refer to these as kind of kitchen table conversations. This is where we do the state of our union kind of thing. Or, where are we, what's going on? We kind of debrief or Monday morning quarterback what's gone on in our life or talk about what's coming up. This is a time where you could say, you know what? I really would like to have a little more of a romanticized aspect of our sex life. I don't really know what that looks like yet, but I would like to slow it down. You just put it out there.

Pam Allan: Maybe it's even just throwing out one thing so it doesn't feel so overwhelming to the other spouse. It's just the one thing of, I'd really love for you to just lay there with me afterward.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And how can you do that ... just thought of this now. How can you do that, even when there's not sex going to be happening?

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: How can you have more of the romantic cuddle, snuggle, connecting, laying beside each other times where you're setting up an environment of, that's intimacy. That's connecting on a deeper level, in a different way. All of those can feed off each other and they overlap. So when I can work on one, I can help it spill over into the other.
So this is a little bit of a similarity to something we talked about, I think it's within the last couple of weeks, Pam. This says, "Hey Corey, quick question. My husband and I parent very differently. I am more of a natural consequence, love and build them up, focus on the relationship type of parent. He is more of a discipline, tough love, they need to learn to listen and obey type of parent. I do not agree with how he disciplines and I'm finding that it is affecting the way I feel about him.
"He had an argument with our daughter last night and then wanted to have sex later. I could not differentiate the way he handled the argument with being ready to have sex with him. I brought it up today and it didn't go well. Should I work on separating his parenting with him as my husband and a sexual partner? How do I do that?"

Pam Allan: That is real, right? Because that's-

Corey Allan: That's totally real.

Pam Allan: That goes to how I view my spouse in the full picture of who they are. My perception of character, my perception of how things should be done, right or wrong.

Corey Allan: Right. This is the seeing behind the curtain that marriage provides.

Pam Allan: Right. And so when we look at any human being, including our spouse, we don't just look at one aspect of them to determine, hey, I really want to be around that person. It's a lot of things that add up.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: And when you're dating ... typically, if this is your first marriage or whatever and you didn't already have kids. Then you didn't see the parenting role beforehand when you were dating. This is a whole new thing. And this is more where family of origin comes in even more.

Corey Allan: This is one of the markers where family of origin rears its head most prominently, is I often will relate to my children the way I was related to, or the exact opposite of how I was related to. Which are fundamentally, still the same. So chew on that for a little bit out there in the nation. But that's what we do. We'll follow the same kind of pattern or we'll go to the extreme opposite of it, which is fundamentally creating the same dynamic.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: But it is one of those things that, yes, how I view aspects and interact with aspects of my partner outside of sex, will impact my sex.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: And there's nothing ... that's normal.

Corey Allan: Yep. It is normal.

Pam Allan: So realize that's a normal thing to go through. And the crazy thing is ... the sexual desire for me can be even effected just when there's a fight with a kid. It doesn't even matter if you and I had differing opinions on how to discipline. That becomes a factor, but that's not even what she's asking.

Corey Allan: Well, no. That helps set up the scenario that a lot of this whole aspect of our lives, especially for the lower desires at times, can be very impactful. Other things can impact this aspect of your life ,easily.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Right? A bad day, a bad moment. Because you could have ... okay. Just speaking among all us lower desires for a moment here in the nation. You can have times where the fan has been flamed all day long and there's this energy and there's this spark and you're kind of building towards that. You've got the gymnastics that are all in line heading towards, yes. There's going to be some really good sex happening. And you've been looking forward to it all day, but can't happen until that night, just because of circumstances. And then something happens in the evening and it gets completely derailed for you.

Pam Allan: I've had that happen, yes.

Corey Allan: So have I. Yes, absolutely. No, but it's just recognizing that's what can happen in a normal aspect. But then when you add a different weight to a dynamic, because parenting has a different weightiness to it, right? Because there's a different identity attached when it comes to, how am I dealing with my cubs? You could have a mama bear syndrome, you could have a Papa bear syndrome.
There's a whole different dynamic that's at play because of the identity that we can have when it comes to these little creatures that are extensions of us, in how we see it. Or they are us, in how we see it. Or I'm responsible for them entirely, in how I see it. So it's just, there's so many meanings that come up with this thing.

Pam Allan: There are. This one, she's being pretty specific though. The way he's the way he's coming down with this discipline, it sounds like, gosh, is it an integrity thing? When I look at my spouse differently and maybe I just don't respect them as much, because I don't believe the way they're handling this relationship is ... respectable? I don't know. The way it's worded makes it sound like it's not as ... maybe it's more heated than you'd prefer. I don't know.

Corey Allan: Okay. I want to come at this just from the data, though.

Pam Allan: Okay. Good idea.

Corey Allan: Because she is more of a natural consequence, love and build them up, focus on the relationship type of parent. Most of that is all framed in a positive, glowing, that is a better way to deal with parenting, in the way I'm hearing it. Then she's already got a dichotomy of the way she sees him as more of the discipline, tough love, they need to learn the lesson and obey, which that's got more of a heavy handed sound to it.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Okay. Would you say out of all of these, they're all aspects that are necessary in life because life will have a way of teaching these lessons. One way or another, life will do this.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So one thought is, suspend the judgment that's attached to all of this and just see it as, okay. What's the impact of the way she sees him interacting versus the way she thinks she interacts? Because we can come at it from my way is more virtuous. When in reality, is it?

Pam Allan: Hmm.

Corey Allan: Right? Because fundamentally speaking, if we're talking about rearing another self-sufficient human being that's going to go out into the world, there's a lot of theories and processes out there that ... which one's right?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if there is a clear cut, this is the right way. It's more likely which one makes the most sense. So then you're starting to look it as preference because then you need to add into it a fundamental question of, is it harmful to your children? Because if it's not, okay, that can reframe the way I think about it and my perspective of it.
Is it abusive ... and I hate using that word, because that's a little harsh. But is it something that's egregious, or is it just something like crosstalk out of line, there you go. That's a softer one. Or is it just preference? Because there is ...

Pam Allan: And realizing, this is what I know. This is how I was raised with ... And if it's just preference, then we've got to reframe how we're looking at this.

Corey Allan: There's an element of ...I'm going to be willing to bet every couple faces this dilemma, to degrees. We do.

Pam Allan: Yeah, definitely.

Corey Allan: Right? One of us will come down with something with a kid, and the other's like, I don't agree. And it's an impact. It's a ding to each of us. So I think what's better is asking yourself some of the bigger questions of, are your values more in line together than maybe you're perceiving? Do you have some of the same goals, globally, for your kids? That's what's helped us in a lot of ways. We have a lot of the same kind of general value that we hope and want for our children, we're in line with that. The manner in which we're getting there, there's nuances and differences.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so sometimes when there's differences in how we see interacting happening with our children, if I can remind myself, but yeah, we still largely want the same. That can help us get back on path a little bit more of, we're still a team. And it's not me against you. It's not combative. We're on the same team. It's not a competition. We're playing doubles in tennis together, not against each other. So we each have our roles that we play.
But how do I differentiate that into my sex life? That's the hard work of realizing, but wait, there's more going on than just raising young ones.

Pam Allan: Right. There's a relationship between us too.

Corey Allan: Right. So how am I continuing that aspect of this relationship? And then, the way I think we get to that aspect better, is we have conversations about it just like we did in the first segment. The kitchen table kind of conversations of, hey, this is some of the things I see, and it's just different than what I experienced. And it sometimes rubs me differently.
And that's a different phrase than, you're too hard on the kids. Because that's an immediate, let me defend why I'm so hard on my kids. But if it's just a, I just see a different. Maybe I have a chance to align. Or head out and find some parenting resources and see if you want to go through them together.

Pam Allan: Go do a Love and Logic class.

Corey Allan: Or there's several out there. Find something that aligns and go through it together. So that way you hear a different ... wait, we could align this way. Knowing full well, we won't be in 100% on this.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Yeah. Because even if you do those things, there's going to be some things that one or both of you say, yeah, I don't agree with that thing at all. But it will show you places that you do align. Yeah. And there may be certain scenarios that you guys are in lock step together and it gives that connection of ...

Corey Allan: Right. And so how does she do this? I think you just take the steps to challenge how you view it in your own life and in your own perspective of it. And then you bring that forward to him, not saying my perspective is accurate and the right way, but this is my experience. And you see if he'll join you in that. Now you've got a whole different type of alignment going on. And then the nuances hopefully are less likely to derail experiences that could potentially happen. And could just be bumps along the way.
So before we transition to the extended content, I'm going to set the stage, just so that people ... because some of the people that saw this title of the episode, probably are like, but hold on. So I'm going to give a little, just a teaser of what this is. Because this is ... we all have fantasies. And I love Esther Perel's statement that, "Fantasies largely can be and are politically incorrect."

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Because that's the way Shannon would frame this, a prior cohost, was fantasies are the way the brain can work to heal itself. And so I think there's a lot of profoundness and meaning that goes on when we talk about our fantasy lives. But I think all too often, us Christians overreact to this aspect of it because it's filled with fear, uncertainty, anxiety, and we quickly label that as sin.

Pam Allan: Even though it's not acted upon.

Corey Allan: Exactly. And so what all has gone on this past week with Instagram has really shown this to be true. And I bet you didn't even know ... I mean, I've told you this. But I'm kind of acting like I didn't tell you this. That according to one person in Instagram world, I'm a jerk and they feel sorry for you.

Pam Allan: They do feel sorry for me.

Corey Allan: Not sure what we're talking about? Join us in the extended content. Well, once again, I'm hoping that with all we've covered today, it's maybe a new way to think about something. It's a new challenge. It's a new aspect that maybe hasn't been framed in a certain way. Because I'll be honest, a lot of the topics that we can choose every so often are clickbait kind of things. As far as the threesome title, come on. We at Sexy Marriage Radio are all for monogamous marriages that are God honoring and the people within honoring. That's what we want to have happen.
But our growth happens the most when I'm willing to be a little uncomfortable with stuff. Discomfort is one of the best ways we learn to grow. And if you don't believe that, go back through the archives and listen to some of the things we cover, because there's kind of a theme all the way through it. That I don't want to be afraid of the things that I'm instantly uncomfortable with. What if I can have the courage to ask myself a little bit better questions? What could this really be? What else could be going on? What is the real threat here? Those are some great questions to get into. And one of the ones you use a lot, babe, is what's this exposing in me?

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: And if I can ask that question, I'm on the cusp of something completely different. It doesn't mean we're going to do a lot different, possibly. But it means I will be different, which in turn makes everything completely better.
Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone or you just can't even believe we had these conversations, let us know because the pushback makes us better. (214) 702-9565. Well, wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, we thank you again for taking a little bit of time to spend it with us. We'll see you next time.