Top iTunes Marriage Podcast

12.5+ Million Downloads

hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

I Still Feel Guilt and Shame #484

On the Regular version of today’s show …

An email from a listener concerned about some of the guests we have on our show and the fact that their values may go against the values of SMR.

A follow up on the topic of swallowing with an email from a listener who wants us to explore another aspect of oral sex.

On the Xtended version …

Let’s face it, it’s hard to escape the world of guilt and shame when it comes to sex. Today we talk about how to address it in your life and marriage. 

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, alongside my wife, Pam.

Pam Allan: Hey.

Corey Allan: Each and every week, we come to you live from our living room.

Pam Allan: Studio, we like to call it the studio.

Corey Allan: We call it the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation broadcast studio.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: But what we want to do is speak to what's going on with you and whatever needs that you may have, what questions that you've got or topics. We'll go where you want us to go, because the SMR Nation has helped create this listener-driven podcast thing that we've had going for well over 8,000,000 downloads now.

Pam Allan: Almost nine years.

Corey Allan: Eight and a half, nine years, coming up right on nine years, almost.

Pam Allan: Yeah, in October.

Corey Allan: Wow. Amazing how fast time flies. We've got to celebrate that one, nine years.

Pam Allan: Yeah. We will.

Corey Allan: Nine-year birthday. But the way you can let us know what's going on or questions that you have call us, (214) 702-9565. And as always, ever since the beginning, I love it that one of the very first getaways that we did many years ago, that was the catchphrase that everybody kept finishing the statement. And when I would say something and we'd go feedback, and everybody else says, "" Because apparently, we say that a lot.

Pam Allan: Yeah, apparently.

Corey Allan: Well, we do, because we want to hear from you. And if you like what we've got going on, please jump on iTunes or Spotify or iHeartRadio, rate and review, leave a comment, help us spread the word that married sex is the hotbed for sex, because that is something we fundamentally believe. And yet today, where we're heading, we're talking about how a lot of the messages and different things that we get, don't always line up.

Pam Allan: No, no. Right.

Corey Allan: And what do we do with that? So, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, it's a couple of your emails that have come in just recently, based on some of the different shows we've had just in the late, the last few weeks. We're going to answer them because they bring up some really good points that are worth pivoting a little bit and explaining, but also going a little bit deeper. And then coming up on the extended version, which is deeper, longer and there are no ads. You can subscribe at We're going to tackle once and for all. Okay. Maybe that's a bit too-

Pam Allan: Like it's going to be absolutely final, right? Okay.

Corey Allan: Maybe I'm overreaching with that.

Pam Allan: Maybe.

Corey Allan: But we're going to try to dive into the whole concept of how many people have so much guilt and shame when it comes to sex and sexuality. And we're going to talk about where does that come from? But more importantly, what do you do about it?All that's coming up on today's show. So Pam, this is something... We've had this come up a couple different times, but we just had a new email come in that fits the same experience I guess, you could say we've had, with some of the different varieties of guests that we have throughout the archives of SMR. And so, this is just an email that says, thanks for your radio program, I've learned a lot from your candid and monogamous faith forward perspective. I listened before recently getting married and it helped me learn to have candid conversations with my husband. Which is fantastic because that's what one of our main goals here at SMR Nation is to frame conversations for couples.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And exciting when it can happen... Start having it even before they're married, but early on the marriage.

Corey Allan: Totally. Yeah. And she confirms that by saying, I'm thankful that my husband and I talk openly about how we can enjoy each other without awkwardness, thanks to your suggestions. One of our recent episodes had another therapist on and she subscribed to her emails because of it. Well, an email that just came out from this guest that we had, she sent a YouTube link that addressed couples viewing porn and if it's okay. And she was shocked to hear that this other therapist said, she didn't find a problem with it. That is the marriage bed defiled in our emailers viewpoints, these are her words. Maybe you weren't aware. In other instances, there's times where we've had a speaker come from a perspective of gender open, who was contrary to biblical roles or some other lines or belief structures that are not in line with what you and I have talked about as far as our structure.
So these examples, in my opinion, hurt your show. They give a confusing perspective when honoring the marriage bed in a Christian point of view. So, I want to express my thought because I love your show. It's taught me many things. Because I have a mature faith, I can take these nuggets of truth and then leave out the rest. Others may not have this discernment, and I would not want any viewers to stumble into sin, thinking that you condone all your other guest speaker's preach. And that this thought is not always expressed in your program, but I trust that you and Pam will do what you feel led. I love your program and what you do for the community of listeners. So, thanks for letting me share my thoughts. And I love the fact that people in the SMR Nation will send these emails and call us at our voicemail line with, "Hey, this is a pushback on some of what you guys have just done or said."

Pam Allan: Yeah. So number one, thank you for listening. Number two, thank you for giving us your feedback because that's always useful.

Corey Allan: And thank you for that feedback. Not just being, "Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir." Right?

Pam Allan: Right. We don't want a, "Yes, ma'am."

Corey Allan: No, because when you can come back at us with stuff that it really does hit you wrong, that's what makes us all better.

Pam Allan: So then, how would you follow up with this one, Corey?

Corey Allan: Okay. So, this is in line with... And I left out some of the different qualifying factors that she put in the email, where she did point out the guests. Because I'm not going to call out a guest on the air. Because we have a lot of different guests that I've... We vet them all. So, I'm more familiar with where they stand, what their lifestyle is. But I also have to distinguish between what's their profession and what's their professional work. Because I think those two, while they usually have quite a bit of overlap, it's not completely seamless, because this is the same kind of thing in my world as a marriage family therapist, if somebody gets divorced, does that mean they no longer can be a good marriage family therapist? If they personally are divorced? No, they still are professional.
So, one of the things we come across is we want to have guests on our show that are bringing really good quality information based on data, based on research, based on their theoretical framework on how they work with people. If it doesn't align all the way with the way they live compared to what our value is, I'm okay with that. And we've talked about this because she even makes this point in her own words of, "I feel like I'm discern of speaking for her here. I'm discerning enough to take what matters and spit out the rest." That's what we do all along. And ever since Sexy Marriage Radio has hit the airways. We've tried to have adult conversations about adult subjects with a group of adults. And that means we don't always have to have group think.

Pam Allan: That's right. What I think about this, when I correlate so many different topics that we are... Certainly, we're not parents to the people that are listening, but I correlate this to parenting with both my kids. And I realized that they're going to get input from all sorts of varieties of cultures, moral, backgrounds, you name it. And that's just in the public school system, from the teachers they have. And there are many things to be learned from many varieties of people that are out there. And so, we're just trying to frame that to say, we've all got to developed discernment within our own lives. We got to see what is my belief system and take out the nuggets that are good. So, the goal is that listeners are doing exactly what she's doing, right?

Corey Allan: Exactly, because you're talking about the aspect of the way we define our belief structure the best, is we come up against things that don't agree with this.

Pam Allan: Yeah. That helps me get rooted in my own beliefs.

Corey Allan: Provided I will do some additional work to solidify, why do I believe what I believe? Because we can't get into an element of, "I'm just pushing back, but I'm not taking the moment to actually hear the other side to then confirm, 'no, no, this is what I really believe.'" This is that fine line of, "Do I just shut down to defend my belief or do I open up and hear it to then deepen my belief?" And there's a difference between those two. That's what we'll be going in the extended content to a greater detail as well. But this is also one of those things that, it's happened over the years of Sexy Marriage Radio, but it also happens within marriage, within families, within co-workers. I mean, think of how many times do we, in our 27 years now, plus, how many times have we not seen eye-to-eye on even some big things, because this is just the little things, those are inconsequential.
But when you have some of the bigger, "You know what, I don't think I agree completely." And it can even be all close to a moral stance that we're struggling with. But we won't always see eye-to-eye. And so to me, a big component of that, because it does happen and it's important I think, that it happens in marriage, because you're not caught in this group lockstep. I can't vary because that means I don't love. So to me, I put a lot of this up under the umbrella of, if I claim to want intimacy in my life, especially with the people that I care about and they're important to me, i.e., a spouse, i.e., children, then a marker of that intimacy is my ability to handle differences, because differences are exposed along with the process of being intimate. Because you start to realize, "I didn't know that about you or I didn't realize that."
And all of that stuff can be incredibly threatening, or you can see it as, "This is just part of the intimate process." Because it's just as likely to produce uncomfortable feelings as it is comfortable once. And so, as we grow closer with people, which I love with the SMR Nation and how with a lot of people, especially those that are in the Academy, we've grown close to. And there's element within here. Some of the conversations that go on a coaching call or in the slack discussion boards, not everybody's in agreement, but I love it because it's respectful and it's a challenging molding process of helping people solidify, who are they. Same thing happens in marriage, how do I see my spouse as a conduit for my own growth, because I want to be intimate with him.

Pam Allan: Right. It was interesting, you bring up the coaching call, this was, I don't know, three or four months back, we had shared. And it's on a coaching call of a similar email to this. It was someone that was concerned about a guest that we had had on the show and some of their own beliefs. And we had shared the struggle we had back and forth of do we air this or not. And one in particular, but multiple people on that coaching call, their response was, "Wow, that'd really be a shame if I hadn't gotten to hear that episode, because I really took some good things away from that person. And it would have been ashamed because I'm old enough and mature enough to discern what to take out of that conversation."

Corey Allan: And the struggling with the topic that we cover here at SMR is when you look at the landscape of people trying to do sex positive, marriage positive messages, and then add the qualifier of a Christian viewpoint and standpoint and spiritual basis, you limit that pool a lot, because there are some really good researchers out there that are finding good information in our world, among humans and where we live, that's worth knowing. And then, you add your own values to it, because I think of it still, data, in and of itself is neutral. You apply value to it. So, that's the point of recognizing. As we grow, how do I disseminate what's coming to me and discard the stuff that I don't agree with or doesn't apply and solidify the rest of it to really move me into who I want to be and what I feel called to be.
Let's face it, Pam. We live in some trying times, but even without what's going on in our world, life has its definite pitfalls, shortcomings, struggles, failures. Sometimes, it's just nice to know that I can have someone that will help me get through the dilemmas and the crisis that I face. And it's also really nice to know sometimes, when that person is a professional. One of our sponsors for today's show is BetterHelp, that's H-E-L-P, where they will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist.

Pam Allan: Interesting. Okay. So, we're advertising for other counselors, even though that's what you are, help them understand.

Corey Allan: I know, what I do for a living as a therapist, my specialty, in my view and take on life, isn't going to click with everybody. And so, better help exists to help match up the broad range of expertise available to all the different subjects or specialties that a person might need that will help them the most effective way.

Pam Allan: Right. Because there's a lot of specialties out there, right?

Corey Allan: Absolutely. And so, at, they will help you start live a better and happier life today because they are 100% online. They match you up with a specialist or the counselor that will help you the most. And then, one of the nice things about it is, because it's an all-in-one location online, if it's not clicking with that therapist that they got you lined up with, they can match you with another one for free.

Pam Allan: Oh, sweet.

Corey Allan: And a lot of times, what I have found with clients that I work with, and with the people that will send me emails and ask me questions, they're not taking it serious enough to say, "Hey, you know what? We're not really clicking. I'd like it with somebody else." And this is a great way that helps make great therapeutic matches that can create lasting change for the clients. So, BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today if you visit, and that's H-E-L-P/smr, this is a special offer for Sexy Marriage Radio listeners, you can get 10% off your first month at today. So, here's another email that just came in from the episode we did two weeks ago, entitled swallowing.

Pam Allan: Okay, good. This will be fun.

Corey Allan: It just says, I just listened to your latest podcast yesterday. And I agree with everything that you and your wife said regarding the voicemail that you were using as your starting point. However, and you knew that how if you were listening.

Pam Allan: Yeah. How big is your butt, right?

Corey Allan: I really felt like you did not get to the core point of why she's not interested in oral sex. A little bit of our background. We were both raised in a conservative, evangelical home, and started dating at 16 and 15, respectively. She knew and had decided in her mind that she was not giving up her virginity before she was married. But she also, was afraid of losing me by not giving me anything. So in her mind, as in a lot of Christian girls like her, oral sex was not really sex. What she confessed to me many years after we were married, was that she hated oral sex because she couldn't stand the taste, hated the texture and she always ended up with a sore throat. For some reasons, shortly after we were married, there was no more oral sex from her. I know diets supposed to affect the taste portion of this dilemma, but who wants to live on pineapple for the rest of their lives just to get oral sex. Although, there's probably some people in the SMR Nation that only eat pineapple.
From your source in the voicemail was that, there were obvious emotional and psychological issues being to put into play as there was early on in our marriage. And you more than adequately dealt with those as best you could, given the background you had. I just didn't feel like you dealt with the physiological issues that are involved in the sexual activity. I have had to come to the realization that this is an allowable marriage bed activity that is not likely going to happen in our marriage bed. I used to think that it was a deal breaker, but I've just gotten over it. I just thought she might like some more input. And once again, I love that people come back with, "Hey, hold on a sec. What about this?"

Pam Allan: Right. Because no one situation is a one size fits all.

Corey Allan: Exactly. And so, if you're not familiar with what we're talking about. Two weeks ago, was an episode where we had a voicemail. She was struggling because husband wanted her to swallow. She just couldn't bring herself to it.

Pam Allan: Not interested.

Corey Allan: And they both were taking the stance of, "If you love me, you would be willing to do this for me." And she's taken the stance of, "If you loved and cared for me, you wouldn't be pressuring me to do this." So, there's a lot at play in this. And one of the things he's touching on that I'm interested that I want to touch on first before we get to the physiological issues. Because I think they go a little hand in hand, is there is a component of what's the messages I've had and what I did when I was dating and how that gets changed once we get married, because there's two major factors at play when you're dating and then they go away when you're married, it's novelty and unknown.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Right? And there's three, there's a chemical thing going on in your brain.

Pam Allan: That goes away after what? Six months?

Corey Allan: Six months to two years is when that chemical goes away from what's being produced in your brain, that gives you that longing obsessive, I'll do anything feeling. And this is where it's interesting, because a lot of people do come up against this whole... It's a belief structure of, "There are certain lines I'm not going to cross." Most of them, as she's referring to, come from a religious connotation of, "I'm going to be a technical Virgin." Which means penis has not entered into a vagina, but we'll do everything else. And oral sex often, seems to be thrown into the everything else.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And that's pretty common.

Corey Allan: And it does become one of these issues of, "I'll do it beforehand because I don't want to lose you." But then, it becomes such a big... It's changed. The connotation has changed, because I've got you.

Pam Allan: Or this other path is acceptable now, right? Penile, vaginal is acceptable. So, I didn't really like this before. I just did it because I thought you wanted it/needed it before. And so, now.

Corey Allan: I felt like, if it wasn't happening, then you might leave.

Pam Allan: Right. Which is a whole different mindset right there. That's a whole different issue to bring into the mix, right?

Corey Allan: Right. Okay. To the physiological side of those though, because we're going to talk more about what we're just setting up right now in the extended content, because we do get into a lot of the whole concept of, "What are the messages that we've been given and we've just bought." And now, they just wreak all kinds of havoc in our marriage, in our sex life, in a whole lot of areas actually. So, we'll talk more about that in the extended content. So, what's interesting to me is this email. And then, even last times, voicemail alluded to... It seems like there's an element of oral sex only is oral sex if it's done through to completion.
I mean, the wrestle of the first one was, "I don't want to swallow. I don't want him ejaculating into my mouth. And then, I either have to spit it out or swallow it." He's talking about with his wife in the beginning, it caused sore throat, it caused issues, but it's an element of, above everything in my mind, oral sex, is an incredibly sophisticated communication beforehand, during, and then maybe even after, because there has to be conversations about, give me a signal, let me know, because if you're doing oral sex on a man to completion, there is an ejaculation, there is something that's going to be a part of the process that wasn't up until the end.
For women, yes, there can be the same concept of, there are women that do have some ejaculation. There is the whole element of squirting that we've got in the archives of SMR. And there is additional lubrication as the whole process unfolds, which can add different mess, taste, experience across the board. And some men can love that, some men can hate that and the same goes true for women. There's some women, "I got no problem with it." Love it, maybe. Some are like, "No way." So, there is just this element of, how do you have a conversation about, "I'm willing to do this to this point. And then, I want to transition to something else." Or, "I'm willing to do this to completion, but I don't want you to ejaculating in my mouth or even anywhere near my face. So, give me enough of a heads up." Because typically as a human being, we should be well enough aware of our own body and processes to be able to say, "Hey, heads up. On the way." Or something.

Pam Allan: And in my mind, that just seem so common sense. I guess, I want that intimate time together to be enjoyable for you as well. And so, for you to feel uncomfortable on the other side and me still be pushing it, how does that even work when you truly want an intimate relationship with your spouse? You feel like you're forcing that on him? Maybe, I'm bringing it up from two weeks ago. I'm not talking about today

Corey Allan: Yeah. I think that's a little bit of elements from two weeks ago, but there is an element. I mean, he's saying here that their experience was, it caused sore throats and it caused... So that's to me, fill in the blanks, it went all the way through conclusion and she'd grew detestable to it. And so, there's a lot of people and I've had people in my office that has been across the board of some are, "Yeah. I've got no problem with it." From the wife talking about it. And maybe the husband even has a problem with it, they're like, "I don't know. I don't want that happening. That's not comfortable for me." There's a lot of meanings associated with this thing. And that's where we have to get it down to, because the physiological issues are to me, they're overcome by communication.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I guess to me, that seems pretty straight forward, it's the psychological issues that are harder to address, are they not?

Corey Allan: Yeah, it is. And he's even talked about it at the conclusion of this email was, "I've realized this is an acceptable thing, but I've also grown to accept the fact that it's not going to happen in my marriage." Because of whatever it was that embedded a message and an experience in his wife's mind and her whole experience with it, even physically, if she end up with sore throats the next day, then, okay, there are components of that. I don't know, medically speaking, what that would be, because in general, semen is pretty neutral as far as a property on harmfulness or not. There's even some science you can find that says it's beneficial to a body. But again, that goes way off the rails, depending on how far you want to go with what I've researched so much trying prove it.

Pam Allan: We're not medical here.

Corey Allan: But it's just seeing this as, if you have this or you're wanting this as part of your relationship, how do you both have the standards and the markers of, let's use this as a part at the foray to it, of our sexual encounter, but don't go past this line, just so you build trust with each other, you build safety with each other, because there is an element of husbands, if you want your wife to perform oral sex on you and you had an agreed upon, "I will not ejaculate in your mouth." And you do, that's a huge hit. If all you have to do is just make a signal of, "Honey, we need to transition to a different position." Or just, you figure out your language in this regard.

Pam Allan: Well, it's like, anything that you say, "I'm going to do this." And you do the opposite, trust hit.

Corey Allan: Yeah. It's a huge hit.

Pam Allan: I don't care if it's the-

Corey Allan: And what you're ultimately asking your spouse to do is open up to you. And in this case, literally. So, just looking at this deeper of yes, there are some things you can do with taste. Because he made the comment of who wants to survive on pineapple all the time, which I love pineapple. But again-

Pam Allan: You also love coffee.

Corey Allan: Yes, I do. Although it probably counteract each other. But it's just, looking at it through, how do we each at least, lay out... This is what I'm interested in. This is what I want. This goes back to the first email that came in. This is the differences between us, that it cannot exist within the differences between us. Our emailer says, yes, he can. Great. But does that mean you never bring up the subject again? That's going to be his call or not? I'm of the belief, it's already a known thing, what's the cleaner way to make it known and handle where she is in her comfort level. And then, you move forward because I think over time, we all change and evolve and lo and behold, I'm sitting next to with a cohost right now that now loves coffee. When before, she didn't really like coffee at all.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Well I'm 47. I just started liking it at 46.

Corey Allan: And one of our favorite things right now is coffee in the morning together.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: I can't help, but be fascinated Pam that, and it's not at all surprising, but how oftentimes we will go different ways on the show, particularly in the extended content. For those of us that are just listening on the regular version, they won't know completely what I'm talking about, but they'll get enough of an idea when I say, "I don't intend to meddle in your life as we're talking through things. But it-"

Pam Allan: But you totally get it.

Corey Allan: Certainly does happen.

Pam Allan: And that's fine. That's fine. That's where we are. That's how we grow.

Corey Allan: And so, I guess, I've had to come to grips with the reality that yes, there are some times that I have ulterior motives. And where we may go? And I need to recognize those maybe cleaner, so that they don't really sneak through.

Pam Allan: So funny.

Corey Allan: Well, it is comical that how oftentimes, you and I can talk. And after we finished an episode, we'll look back and go, "Wow, that really overlapped where we were X time." Or whenever. But to me, I take that as we're not all unalike in this world-

Pam Allan: We're being real, being real.

Corey Allan: Everybody has a lot of the same things they face. Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If there's something I've done that we need to do better, please let us know, (214) 702-9565 or Wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, thanks again for taking a little bit of time out of your week to spend it with us. See you next time.