Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, passionatelymarried.net. You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, this time coming to you live from the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway.

Pam Allan: Say hi, everybody.

Corey Allan: Where we are on, what is this, day two?

Pam Allan: Day two. He's already confused.

Corey Allan: Gracious.

Pam Allan: It's all good.

Corey Allan: Way to throw me under the bus right away there, babe. But now, this is great because we're in the middle of four days with some of the sexiest couples on the face of the earth and having a great time diving into life, diving into relationships. But the main thing, if you're not a part of the Getaway, come in the future, because it's totally worth it. But it also is a chance that you get to spend just with your spouse who is sexy.

Pam Allan: That's exactly right.

Corey Allan: Mine is, so I'll take it.

Pam Allan: Wow, ditto.

Corey Allan: All right. I appreciate that. So where we're heading today, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio. I'm a little flustered. I don't know why.

Pam Allan: And my terms of endearment are so great. Ditto is what I have for you. So, sorry.

Corey Allan: Hey-

Pam Allan: This is me.

Corey Allan: ... we all talk about meanings and I know what that means. So we're good. If you like what's going on, even if you just want to ditto, Sexy Marriage Radio, as a comment, do it. Jump on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you listen. And just say ditto and leave a comment, rate and review the show. Help us spread the word. Also, we want your questions 214-702-9565. Those of you in the audience, we want your questions in the box right here. If you got something going on from this weekend that we want to expand on, throw it in there because we'll answer it. And it'll be part of extended content in the future most likely. But coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, are a couple of questions and our answers. Pam's got some that she's going to hit right out of the park.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I'll be the expert.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Pam Allan: Advice giver tonight.

Corey Allan: Perfect. And on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, it's a deeper, longer in their ads. You can subscribe at passionatelymarried.net/smracademy. We're going to air some live Q&A that happened at the Getaway where it's just me answering questions of people, because this is what makes Sexy Marriage Radio so great. Is the idea that if you got a question, we'll answer it. And we even do that here at the Getaway. Is a chance just to unfold and unpack what's going on. And if there's something that you are too ashamed to ask in public and out in the open or on our voicemail line, you write it up, you put it in the box and we'll answer it, or you email us at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. That should be known to everybody.

Pam Allan: inaudible I love that.

Corey Allan: All right, Pam. So this is an email that came in not too long ago. So let me just read it. It says, my husband and I have been married for eight years, we have two kids, and we're in a really rough patch. We disagree about everything. Basically everything I value and I'm passionate about, he hates or barely tolerates. We have zero intimacy in our marriage and that's something that we definitely need counseling for, but he thinks counseling is a waste of time and money. But I think he'd go if I begged him to.
That being said, I honestly don't know how to be intimate with him when there's no intimacy outside of the bedroom. I know that biblically, I shouldn't withhold myself from him, but which is worse, faking it or withholding. I can't pretend to be into it when I'm not. And I know he'd be so hurt if I told him to just do what he needs to do. And then I'll lie there until he's done. How do I handle this biblically and in a Godly manner? He says he's a Christian, but shows no desire to be in the word or in the community. He says he prays a lot, but he says his faith is very private for him. So I'm not part of that. Thanks for any and all advice. So, they are in quite the dilemma.

Pam Allan: How did they connect in the first place, is my question. If everything they disagree about, what was the connection in the first place to even start dating or connect? There's got to be something along the way.

Corey Allan: Sure. Well, and some of that can also be the idealized distortions that we have that we meet and fall in love with somebody that's sometimes in a lot of times in a lot of ways are opposite and that's appealing. And now all of a sudden that they're eight years in, it's not appealing,

Pam Allan: Not appealing, because we're apposite.

Corey Allan: It's frustrating, but the dilemma is she's got this equation going on as I'm hearing it, no intimacy outside of the bedroom, or no romance or good feelings outside of the bedroom equates to not being interested in sex. This is that this then that equation that I think we all fall victim to. We have this on one of the emails that we've got that we'll probably do in the future pretty quick of, when you let yourself go physically, it's not appealing. And then we have this caveat, if you looked better, I'd be more interested in sex. But actually that may not be true. Because if more intimacy occurs outside of the bedroom, does that equate to all the sudden now there's sex happening in the bedroom?

Pam Allan: Well, yeah. I would say, to me, logically, that sounds like that would be a connection. If I have intimacy outside of the bedroom and we feel like we have more of an emotional connection elsewhere, there'd be more of an inclination it would seem.

Corey Allan: Maybe. But I think we often sell each other short, or more importantly sell ourselves short in this idea that romance will equate to sexual lubrication.

Pam Allan: So one plus one doesn't equal two there.

Corey Allan: Not in core math, not all the time.

Pam Allan: Right, right. I forgot about core math.

Corey Allan: But it's recognizing that, because you're not talking about linear equations in the way we are as people and the trauma that's happened in our lives and the different things that get things out of whack to where all of a sudden there's all kinds of... This happened to us where the day has unfolded really well, and even the date unfolded really well, and maybe even sex started really well and it just derailed. Was one of us.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: And it's like, what happened? Well, I don't know. Well, maybe we can fix it. Not now. We can't. It's over. It just changed. So it's just seeing, I think it's too easy and shortsighted to think if we increase one side, the other will come along with it. Not that that's not a bad equation to shoot for, because what she's saying she wants is give me some of that outside. So maybe it can happen inside. I'm more interested in what's present though.

Pam Allan: And what do you think is present?

Corey Allan: The fact that she is struggling with, I'm not into this yet I'm still having it, and he's okay with it.

Pam Allan: Well, she's asking if it's okay to fake it or just withhold it. She's trying to fake it too.

Corey Allan: What's the difference, I guess.

Pam Allan: Well, she's the one having to deal with hiding something.

Corey Allan: And even though he didn't email in, I'm going to posit the idea that he has to fake it too. Not his act. He has to fake the fact that he knows he's having sex with someone that doesn't want to have it.

Pam Allan: Okay. Yeah.

Corey Allan: That's what's present.

Pam Allan: Yeah. How many people know when their spouse is faking it?

Corey Allan: I would say most people that have been married for a while, know.

Pam Allan: They probably know.

Corey Allan: Right. And then you're faced with the fact of, is it okay or not for me?

Pam Allan: So, the move for her is to come out and say, "Dude, I'm faking it for you here."

Corey Allan: Maybe that's a better move, because that's actually calling out the elephant in the room. That's actually calling out the dynamic of, you know what, okay, let's just level set this whole thing. You and I both know what's happening. It's all just an act. Maybe that's your opening move.

Pam Allan: Well, otherwise she's just tic the whole time. She's doing something she doesn't want to do.

Corey Allan: Because she's caught in this dilemma, which has a biblical dilemma added to it, which is withholding what's happening here. I don't like going down that route, because I think you're not talking about... Withholding does not mean you never have the chance to say, no, and it also does not mean you can't have a lot of times where you say, no. That's not withholding. Withholding as an intentional, I'm not doing this and you can't go anywhere. I think that's the covenant withholding, not an individual withholding.

Pam Allan: Individual instance withholding?

Corey Allan: Right. Because how often do we get caught up in there? I'm not doing this and you can't leave, because that makes it easier for me to say, I'm not doing this. I don't have to face the risk. But I look at it as what really matters for her is how do you bring it forward to say, this is the real dilemma going on for me? You know this too, buddy, what do we want to do about it? Because that's the bigger integrity move, ain't it? That's a bigger character move.

Pam Allan: Yeah. There's some critiquing and maybe what she's saying is right about the other pieces that are frustrating her, about what he's saying about his faith. But I would hope that she doesn't necessarily go there.

Corey Allan: Where he's taken the idea of all, but all this is private.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Okay. But I think that's all... Just again, put it in the elements of this is what's present. He's using his philosophy and his framework to justify his stance or his action, not address the impact of his stance and his action. She's trying to do the same thing of if I fake it, I don't have to deal with the impact of the fact that I don't really want this. That's the dilemma for both of them, isn't it?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: So it's recognizing, okay, the better move, the way I'm hearing this from the way she's writing this is, how do I handle this in a Godly manner and in a biblical manner? You do it from your character that's willing to say, "Okay, let's face facts with what's going on. This is a struggle. I get caught in feeling like I have to fake it or just not do it. And I know that puts you in a dilemma because you want this." And I'm going to guess most of the people here in the audience, I'll speak for most people, I want to have sex in my life, but I really want the person I'm having sex with to be with me in that. I don't just need a conduit that I can without my hands. So it's moving into an element of how do I get to this point of, I really want to taste the sweetness of my partner in this moment. And you do not get to that point without being brutally honest and taking the risk. That's my thought.

Pam Allan: I got nothing else on it.

Corey Allan: Ditto.

Pam Allan: Nicely played, nicely play.

Corey Allan: So next email that came along. So this is a lady that he reached out on Instagram and what has happened for anybody that's listening regularly, but also interacts with us on Instagram, if you go to Sexy Marriage Radio, you'll find us, where there's a lot of stuff going on in this community there. I get DM questions there a lot. And a lot of the ones that are worth expanding more, I asked them, "Hey, email me." So this is where she's given more background than what I originally had.
So she said, my husband and I have known each other since we were 11, Fast Forward, 25 years, and we've now been married eight years. We have two boys and we have a great marriage. 2020 was actually great for us. I moved to working from home completely. He's a farmer and we've had a lot of times to connect. We do individual counseling and even a couple of marriage counseling sessions. It's amazing and it's truly improved our communication and helped us heal from past hurts.
I had a previous marriage and that caused a lot of PTSD for me. My prior husband was an abusive alcoholic. He cheated on me multiple times. He was emotionally abusive. He addicted to porn and even got someone else pregnant. In 2021, but it's been amazing and I've never felt closer to my current husband and our sex life has the been the best ever. I feel safe, loved, and trust my husband.
With that being said, he's always wanted to have anal sex and I've done it twice, but it's just not something I enjoy. Part of it is hurt from my previous husband, forcing anal, even to the point of my bleeding. And I've enjoyed it a bit with my current husband, but when we've tried, he's always been very careful. I know it's something he really enjoys. And while I was cleaning the other day, I found a dildo and confronted him. He was very embarrassed, but he told me that he only occasionally uses it to have anal stimulation when he masturbates. Usually if I'm out of town.
He says he doesn't use porn and it's just something he enjoys. And he knows I'm not comfortable with it, so he didn't include me. He cried and was so embarrassed. And just as nervous that I would look at him differently. And you didn't want to lose our sex life that we had or the trust and love we've built.
So here's the things I'm struggling with. Why a dildo? The more I think about it, it just seems very strange. He's the furthest thing from being gay and he's all over me all the time so I'm not worried about it, but it weirds me out. I feel a bit betrayed that I had no idea he was doing this. I always asked him what fantasies he's had and how we can explore our bodies together. She says, she's very open to things. They've tried anal toys, outdoor sex, public sex, et cetera. It's fun. How can I find ways to be included in these things with him without feeling like I'm pushing the boundaries that I'm not comfortable with? Thanks for any and all advice. So...

Pam Allan: First thing, what would be the very first thing you would address in that one?

Corey Allan: The very first thing I would address in this is I would go with this idea. I want to dispel the myth of if somebody is interested in anal play does not equate to home orientation. Anal play is anal play. That's just the reality. There are nerve endings and sensations. And for men, that's a quick way to the prostate, which actually prostate play and massage can be very enjoyable. So it's recognizing just because there's a dildo involved and he's the one using it. It has nothing to do with his sexual orientation.

Pam Allan: Okay. So if maybe that's a concern for her right off the bat, then try and alleviate that.

Corey Allan: It is at least reframe that meaning. Because he even has the confirmation where she's trying to defend it like, wait, he's not, he's not. It's because he's all over me. And I-

Pam Allan: But sometimes people defend just because they still have that question in their mind.

Corey Allan: Well, I defend because I'm uncomfortable. I don't like where that could go. And again, same sex attraction. Let's talk about this too for a second too, because we have a history of people that I know in the SMRNation that have struggled with same-sex attraction. Some that have gone down that route and that's it. Each and everybody's own journey to address and deal with.
But same-sex attraction is also much more common than people like to talk about or think is normal. It does happen. What do I act on? Because we all have triggers. We all have things that are stimulating and titillating. And we think about, and if I go down the route of what would it be like, does it mean I'm same-sex attracted. I don't know. Why do I have to put a judgment on it? Who I am? How do I act? That's my character, because all of our minds are politically incorrect.
I'm looking across the audience and seeing a lot of politically incorrect minds. Because some of the stuff we did this morning on asking these people like that and these people they're, "Some of that was just dirty." But it's just recognizing that has nothing to do with the other. This equation doesn't work. So instead I think what matters is these are the unilateral moves, these are the novelties. Because he's making a move of something he thinks is enjoyable and pleasurable. He's gotten the data that she doesn't.

Pam Allan: Well, she's got history with it. There's real issues, is that right?

Corey Allan: It's justifiable. Absolutely. But even if I don't have a history with something like that, even if I tried it out and realized, Nope, not good for me. That's enough data to realize, "So if I want to do that, I need to not include you." Which then I have to figure out how do I do this in the confines of my marriage?

Pam Allan: Well, and you go back to, it was in secret. And we talk about that all the time. There are things that are done and the worst thing is doing things in secret. Because what's associated with? Why is it in secret? Is there shame. Is there something going on? It makes the mind wander. It creates doubt in the trust of the spouse.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. And you know why it creates that kind of doubt.

Pam Allan: Tell me why inaudible.

Corey Allan: I will tell you, I'm glad you asked.

Pam Allan: inaudible.

Corey Allan: It's because we have a mechanism that's associated with the fight, flight or freeze syndrome in our brains of I'm protecting myself. And so when I have lack of information, I will often fill in with worst case scenario, because I just want to protect for a possible enevetability. And that way, if I've gone down that route and I've mustered myself up, if I lo and behold find out, well, you know what, maybe he is actually same-sex attract, I'm ready for it. At least I think I am.
We fill in that. And I think a lot of that is just a protective mechanism. Because all of us in existence today in large part, if you're listening to Sexy Marriage Radio, you probably fall under this umbrella. We live in a world that's really soft when it comes to true dangers. So where does that fight, flight or freeze go? It was intended to keep us out of harms from predators i.e., animals that would eat us, or dangerous situations, and tribal warfares and all the different things.
Well, we don't have that as much. So with all of that still operating, looking for real threats. And so it's been fine tuned to recognize and come out a bunch of different ways. So I hear it as first and foremost from this couple if they were actually talking to me and I saw his expression when it was found, I'd have no worries about this couple making it through with this. I'd have tremendous hope for them. Because he recognized, "Oh, this was really exposing. This was really embarrassing. This was a fetish that was just revealed. I feel really embarrassed." Which is a normal thing.

Pam Allan: Yeah. They've just increased the intimacy for sure.

Corey Allan: Yes they have. Now what do we do with it is what matters next? Because that's how you deal with the intimacy that's now established. That's moving into this realm of, "If we are not solid with ourselves, this is a tease into where we're heading this afternoon. If we're not solid with ourselves, I will try to make the intimacy come back down to a more comfortable level because I'm uncomfortable. If I'm more solid with myself, I'm okay being a little more exposed and see if my partner will grow up to my level." See the difference because she's even asking that question. How can I find ways to be included in things with him without feeling like I'm pushing the boundaries I'm not comfortable with? That's the main question.

Pam Allan: Look at her. Good on her. She's trying to be there and not cap herself. But realize, there's a place I really don't necessarily want to go, for valid reasons.

Corey Allan: Right. And that's a thing that she's got a history of, I'll test it out even to get more data.

Pam Allan: I'm impressed that she even tested it out after her history. inaudible

Corey Allan: Absolutely. Yes. Is a good point, but it's just realizing, okay, I only can solidify my boundaries most of the time by testing them out to know, yep, that's exactly it. Most of the time we all have boundaries. Some of our guardrails that we put in life are coming from somebody else that I've adopted. I have not fully assimilated them into my life.

Pam Allan: Because somebody else gave you their experience and you're out saying, "Not going to do it."

Corey Allan: Or somebody warned me off about it, or taught we don't do that. Good girls don't. Good guys don't do that. Whatever it might be, then that's that whole sex is dirty, sex is dirty, save it for the one you love kind of a thing. But it's just recognizing this dilemma of how do I get into this? How do I be a part of things I'm not comfortable with and still have my boundaries? Well, those two are one in the same.
My comfort level has nothing to do with the boundary. My actions do. If it's like, you know what, maybe a mustering move for her to really test this out is to say, "I'm really don't understand it. I don't get the idea of anal play. I don't get the idea of a dildo." There's other things you could do that might be a little less invasive or a little different meaning to her and to him still provide the stimulation.
I'm struggling to try to understand it. And maybe next time you're interested, just let me know. Maybe I want to be a part, maybe I don't. Because we do it, how do we know? Until we test some things out.

Pam Allan: How do we?

Corey Allan: Because there are a lot of things that we come across in the show, or I hear in my office that it's just like, I'd walk away going, "What would that even be like?" And then you test it out and you're like, "That was actually fun. Thank you for that Johnny, letting me know." But it's just recognizing all of these kinds of moves are unilateral. All of these things are things that my boundaries get pushed until I reached the point of I'm living according to it. And now it's not about my other partner respecting that boundary, it's about me enforcing and living according to that boundary. It's great when they respected which he did. She wasn't interested, so he hid it.

Pam Allan: Yeah. So he hid it. And he was probably trying to do that out of... I can only imagine I'm making an assumption here, but trying to do that out of respect for the history that she's had. He's like-

Corey Allan: This is not linear. This is not one thing equates to another. And it's a lot of things it's got to be making this whole thing up. No, but I get what you're saying. That there has to be a factor in there of he knows her history. He's heard the stories. I'm sure. So there would be an element of why would I want to bring something out in the open that I really want to do that I know goes right into what has hurt you? That's care, but it's also hiding.

Pam Allan: It is.

Corey Allan: So how do you move into for both of them to realize, "Okay, this is like the first one. This is out in the open. This is what exists between us. How we just address that better. And then we both make moves according to where we are in the moment. And I'm not holding you hostage for your move or mine." If this is the thing I want to test it out, I do. And maybe halfway through, you're like, "Nope, I don't want to be a part of it." Okay. Then you can excuse yourself. And then I keep going or I don't. But it's what's happening in the marriage. It's all unfolding. So keep it out in the open more and then each can make moves accordingly. Well, once again, it is such a great opportunity to be on the air with you. Especially here at the Getaway.

Pam Allan: It went fast. I thought we were going to do another one, but I look down at the clock and I'm like, "Oh, yeah."

Corey Allan: You were all gearing up with your pen there.

Pam Allan: I was gearing up.

Corey Allan: I'm going to start taking more notes because I got more answers.

Pam Allan: All right, we'll do this again. We'll meet up and do it again. How's that?

Corey Allan: You mean you and I will meet together and do another show?

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: I like it. Book it.

Pam Allan: All right.

Corey Allan: Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone, because some of these... The topic makes a difference.

Pam Allan: It does.

Corey Allan: Because I'm assuming some of the people that are in the audience stayed to listen, thank you guys for hanging out with us for this. But I'm sure even some of the people in the nation they're listening to it. When you hear a topic, we can sometimes have this guttural reaction that it shuts down our brains and we're not open to hearing it. And so sometimes this can be one of those. If you've found that, like I saw my all the way through it, but it's like, "No, I was just repulsed. I was just... No way gross. I can't come back to it later." Because that's the same kind of thing of how do I realize this is an evolution process of my learning and developing as people? We all evolve that way, right?

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: Character is developed over time.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Wisdom is earned. Getting old is earned, which I like because I just turned 50. So earn in that thing, baby. crosstalk I appreciate that too. Ditto. This has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone, let us know 214-702-9565, or feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. We'll see you next time.