Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, passionatelymarried.net. You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allen.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio alongside my wife, Pam.

Pam Allan: Fabulous to be here.

Corey Allan: As always, we are going where the nation wants to go. The way you can let us know where you want to go is 214-702-9565, is our voicemail line. That gets you to the front of the line, so if you call there and leave us a message, it's got to be less than three minutes and I can even disguise your voice if you'd like. That allows you to get to the front of the line. We'll get to your questions sooner in the queue, because we've got a lot of questions that come in over the last few months.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: We're still trying to get caught up as is a lot of the world it seems. A lot of different things, holidays can knock everybody back. Or you can call email us at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. Even there, if you want to do an audio of your voice and email it to us, we'll use it. I can still alter that one too. Technology's so great when it works.

Pam Allan: It's cool.

Corey Allan: We also ask the nation to help us spread the word, rate and review the show, leave comments on iTunes, or however you choose to listen, because we want to spread the word that married sex, is the hot bed for sex and it can just get better and better as the marriage goes on and on because this is just a good thing that separates marriage from everything else.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Another thing we're going to personally invite everybody, this is a personal invitation for Pam and I. June 23rd through the 25th in 2022, come to Indianapolis. Just get a ticket, get in the car, start driving, show up in Indianapolis and come to the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway.

Pam Allan: It's going to me a great time.

Corey Allan: It will. We've done this a bunch now I've lost count. I don't know if it's six, or seven, or five, or six or... Because COVID threw everything off.

Pam Allan: I know threw everything [crosstalk 00:02:19] off, anyway.

Corey Allan: But this is one that we're shifting up the form out a little bit to where we're starting a little bit early on Thursday.

Pam Allan: Yep.

Corey Allan: Typically, we would start Thursday night.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Now we're going to start in the afternoon. We will be done Saturday evening-

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: ... with a celebration dance, hang out social event to where... But the difference is we're given the couples that can come, Sunday's yours to just get up, have breakfast, go tour the city, go have fun, relax, and then travel home later in the day. Or stay the whole day and check out the city and each other more or whatever you choose to do.

Pam Allan: Or come earlier in the week and check out the city beforehand.

Corey Allan: You can do that as well too. But what we're doing this time is not just all the content, and not just all the time that you get to spend with your spouse... because this is kind of, we found that blend that's really beneficial.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because we start late in the morning. We're done, so the evenings are yours. We're also going to offer up a bunch of social events that are optional. If you want to and meet other people in the nation... Which let's be honest, the other people in the nation are pretty cool.

Pam Allan: They are. It's funny because there's usually a split of people. There's a lot of people that want to get to know other people that are in this community just to create some connection. Then others, they do just take it, "You know, it's just going to be the two of us. I'm not interested in those things." So we thought it'd be a good mix to kind of [crosstalk 00:03:46] offer a little both.

Corey Allan: One of my favorite things from the past getaways is like this past year in 2021, one of the last nights we went out to dinner just you and I just to kind of debrief and-

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: ... just sit and talk for a little while. We're at a little restaurant that was in walking distance to the hotel. As we're leaving, we look and there's a table of like eight couples from the getaway, all just in this big long-

Pam Allan: Just chatting and have a good time.

Corey Allan: Just chatting away. So we joined them for like another hour-

Pam Allan: It was so much fun.

Corey Allan: ... just laughing and telling stories. That's what we want to try to help cultivate. Is chance that if you want to connect with other people, because let's face it marriage is better when we realize we're not alone, and we've got other people along with us. Which is part of what the my.passionatelymarried.net platform provides as well.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: But we hope you'll come. Right now registration is open, the early bird getaway rate is available until April 15th and then it will go up by $100 dollars. So you can jump on board there's payment plans available. But June 23rd to the 25th, come join us. You will be glad that she did.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Well coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio are a couple of your messages that have come in that we need to get to, and plus maybe one more. We'll just see. We have the best laid plans to, "Let's cover like these three." And then we go deeper on one and then we can't get-

Pam Allan: There's no time.

Corey Allan: ... to all three. So again like the world, we keep it flexible. So we're covering your questions in the regular version today. Then on the extended version of sexy emerging radio today, which is deeper longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at passionatelymarried.net/smracademy. One of the buzzword that's been going on in some of the different dialogues and the platform, and then the dialogues that I come across in the profession is the world of trauma, and how it impacts people? What do we as clinicians, what do we need as authors or voices that are speaking into it, how do we address it better? So we're going to unpack that idea and that concept as I see it, and as I was trained by [Schnarch 00:06:00], because again, he has a different take and a different approach slightly.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: So it should be a fascinating conversation, I think. All that's coming up on today's show.

Speaker 4: Hey Corey, I wanted to ask you a question, we are in a great place now and come with a lot of work. We're interested in learning more about the spiritual side of sex or whether its tantric sex, or just something that's deeper. I know David Deida would call it like stage three sex. I know your mentor, David Schnarch, talks about, sex and spirituality. I was just wondering what resources you might know of, or we can even open up to the listeners what has worked for them. But finding something that moving something deeper, something more transcendent. So I await your answer, but I know there's something more an I'm not sure the next place to go. Thank you.

Corey Allan: Well, this is one of those fun conversations, I think. Because all too often we fall into the whole, just the functional side of sex.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Just the penis, vagina, bodies together, working toward a mutually agreed upon goal hopefully, and that's it. It's pleasure. It's bodily, it's biological, and that's all it is.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So he's asking the question of what about the other sides of the other aspects of it? He's already mentioned two, David Deida's a great one who's not a believer. He's going to be much more new age,.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: But I've read a bunch of his stuff. He's got tons of videos out there on YouTube as well. Assuming nothing's changed when I was doing the deep dive on his rabbit trail five years ago. But he does talk about the different level, the stage threes, or the different aspects. If you're not familiar with what he's talking, this idea... because you and I talked about it just right before the show, of tantric and spiritual-

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: ... are those the same thing? I think you can look at it as the aspect of what's the meaning you attach to each word, because I kind of put them as the same.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Spiritual isn't necessarily Christian, spiritual is just that other realm of that connection between us.

Pam Allan: Right. Beyond the physical body.

Corey Allan: It's interesting because as I was thinking through this, Gwyneth Paltrow has a series out on Netflix, I think it's called Sex, Love, & Goop. I just lost the name, I think that's what it was. Where couples are just working with different professionals she's come across. On one of them she's talking about this aspect of wife is laying on a massage table and they both put their hands up way above her, in the air and bring it down until they can kind of sense and feel the energy coming from her.

Corey Allan: They were still like a foot and a half from her before they felt something change, that's what's going on. I think that's what he's alluding to. Is there's an energy between us, that it's not just the physical sensations and touches. So what are the resources? He's already mentioned one with David Deida. Schnarch refers to this as well, he gets into the spiritual. He also has a whole concept in passionate marriage of wall socket sex is what he calls it. It's like you're tapping into another energy source.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Which is just never ending, which that's the beauty and the profoundness I love. Is that's just an awareness of your presence and not just the sensations, that's a soaking in all of who you are. Then I did a quick little search, Rabbi [Shmuley 00:09:47]-

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: ... I came across him years ago because he has a book called Kosher Adultery because he's taken a different slant-

Pam Allan: Interesting title.

Pam Allan: It is. But he's talking about having an affair with your spouse,

Corey Allan: With your spouse, yeah.

Pam Allan: ... basically with your spouse. Yeah.

Corey Allan: But he has courses out there on his website where he talks about the spiritual a lot, because he's a rabbi. So he's coming at it from that lens and he talks about the idea, and he brings in the spiritual, and the tantric and a lot of that too. So there's another resource to check out who I would trust in the sense of, he's not going to take you way off the deep end. I wouldn't think I would be a little more comfortable checking out his stuff. Then the thing he mentioned too-

Pam Allan: How do you spell the name?

Corey Allan: S-H-M-U-L-E-Y.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Shmuley.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: He's good. I, I like the stuff I've read and come across from him before. It makes me think and like, "Ah, that's a good way to think that or it's challenging." Then there's some stuff like "Yep." That's every author out there. Some of it, "Absolutely." Some of it. "Yeah no, I don't agree with that." And then move along.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: No need to go deeper than that. Then the one thing I will say, and we'll kind of throw this out here to Jessica, because I know she'll listen to this right away. We'll throw it out there at my.passionatelymarried.net, and we'll put a little section up there under the episodes tab. If you're a part of the conversations that are going on there, this is where the community can jump in. We can have "What works for you? What have you found that helps [crosstalk 00:11:27]?" Or feedback sexymarriageradio.com and we can follow up on future shows.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: But then the last thing I will say, because this just is kind of everybody, and this is the stuff from Schnarch that I love the most. Is one of the best ways to get into the deeper other realms of sex and move it beyond just the physical is open your eyes and connect with each other's eyes. Schnarch, refers to this as eyes open sex-

Pam Allan: Eyes open.

Corey Allan: ... and eyes open orgasm.

Pam Allan: Right. There's some sort of light so you can see eyeballs.

Corey Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. [crosstalk 00:11:56]. You can do it intimately lit, you can do it with just the regular lighting. However, it is that's unfolding. It could be in the daylight, but actually open your eyes and connect eye to eye, because it brings about a different depth of meaning and a moment with each other. Because you see each other beyond just the physical form.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: It's the aspect of eye to eye contact. It's the endearing feelings, there's a bond that comes from that.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: He did a study years ago and found that only like less than 20% of people opened their eyes during sex. But even from within that, he postulated that within that 20%, not all of them are doing eye to eye.

Pam Allan: Oh.

Corey Allan: One of them just has their eyes open looking at the body, looking at the interactions and what's going on-

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: ... and connecting in that regard. But a lot of times people will close their eyes to kind of focus on their own and sensations in their own world. Or to disconnect and fantasize about something else to get the job done or-

Pam Allan: [crosstalk 00:12:59] Well, or it's to fantasize to get their mind in the game. Then if they open their eyes, their mind gets off the game. Right?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: So they're just trying to focus, but you can see where, when I have eye to eye connection with someone, it can create an uncomfortableness, but when you can drive through that uncomfortableness, the connection... Amazing.

Corey Allan: Yep. That's what I would say to start with, to add to what he's asking and then we throw it over to the rest of the nation to, what did we miss?

Speaker 5: Hi. I just wanted to call in, I love your show and I'm grateful for all the time and effort you've put into each episode. I just wanted to call, I haven't heard anything so much about this on any of the episodes that I've listened to. But I have been married for almost 11 years and we have four beautiful children. My husband and I we've been through a lot. We both made mistakes on our marriage and we've forgiven each other. Overall we have a very strong and healthy marriage. We are playful together and have fun. We're spiritually connected. When we do have sex, it can be a very beautiful and emotional experience for us both.

Speaker 5: The problem is, is that I just don't enjoy... I wouldn't say I don't enjoy, but I don't find the importance in having sex often. I think that when somethings special the more that it happens or the more you're used to it, it becomes less special. I'm just not wired to want sex all the time. So I just find it to be more special, and to be more of a beautiful experience when it's more rare.

Speaker 5: Obviously, my husband is a higher desire. I'm the lower desire in that. I don't necessarily want to change that. I feel like, this is my body and why should I have to change what I do with my body just to please someone else's body, I guess. I feel like sex is obviously a choice and my husband never forces me into anything, but I don't feel like I should have to do something I don't want to do with my body, something that's so invasive, as a man penetrating a woman who's physically like going inside of you, it's a very intrusive situation to be in.

Speaker 5: I just don't feel like a woman should have to do that just because your supposed to have sex. I know that's like a really hard way to come at it, but I guess I'm just confused. I don't necessarily want to change because I feel like sex is a beautiful thing, and it's special, and it should be saved for those special occasions, not just a quickie three, four times a week, it makes it not very special. So I would just love any insight on that. I know that's a really loaded question, but I hope that you can make something out of it. All right. Thank you. Bye.

Corey Allan: Yes. This is a loaded question.

Pam Allan: It is loaded in lots of ways, in lots of ways. I mean, you made reference to... Well, we'll get into some of that later. It is special though.

Corey Allan: Yes, it is.

Pam Allan: Sex is special. I'll speak personally. When I came into this marriage, I knew this was going to be something special that only happens between my husband and I, it wasn't going to anywhere else. It's an interesting phraseology on saying that it should be saved for special occasions. I'm curious are we saying that it's only saved for an anniversary, and you know-

Corey Allan: Yeah. So let's unpack the word special real quick because-

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: ... there's several different things, I think we have to challenge meanings-

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: ... its just to help frame it better. Because "Special", way I hear it, scarcity is what brings about specialty.

Pam Allan: That's what this sounds like-

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: ... is scarcity, is special. Yes.

Corey Allan: That then makes me wonder, okay. Is there more of a scarcity mindset in general? Or is there an abundance mindset? You know this full well Pam, I love boiling things down into two choices because it just makes things a whole lot easier if we get down to the crux of it's this or it's this.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: If you come at the world with a scarcity mindset, then we have to cling to things a little bit more and we have to hold onto them differently because there's not enough of them. So there's a uniqueness to it, and a specialness or-

Pam Allan: Don't waste anything.

Corey Allan: Right. Versus how do you challenge that mindset of does it have to be limited and rare to make it special? Or what about the other aspects of what goes on, that does bring about the connection and the depth, and the fun, and the playful, and the bond that she described they have in the other aspects of their marriage, how does that equate to what goes on in their sex life? Right?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: How do you look at it through the lens of specialness, is it only reserved for the rare?

Pam Allan: I look at this and I think a definition of special in this situation can be, "Well, this is such a special event because it's only between the two of us."

Corey Allan: Right. See if you can make it a little more global.

Pam Allan: "You and I can do this"-

Corey Allan: Not just the moments.

Pam Allan: "... at any time. It's special because, oh my gosh, how can we do this hidden in secret when the kids are around, how we"... I don't know. Well, anyway,-

Corey Allan: [crosstalk 00:19:14] So you make the moments special-

Pam Allan: You make the moments-

Corey Allan: ... not just the act itself special.

Pam Allan: ... special.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Not just the act, but we can't change her mind into what her definition of special is.

Corey Allan: No. Absolutely. That's why I want to at least ask the questions of how does that word... What's the meaning you attached to it, and how you then apply it to aspects. Because not apples to apples, but I've had an element of there're different things we've owned or done in our life that I don't want to use them up.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: So I get real reserved on "No, I don't want to use that"... and this is my own thinking. I don't bring this out in the open to you. This is my own weird little world.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: What I've tried to do is challenge that thought processes in my mind to start to see it more in the sense of "No, no, no. Let's use all of it. I bought this thing to use, let's drive it into the ground until [crosstalk 00:20:09] it falls apart because it's been used so much, because that's why we have of it."

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Right? It's just, I have to flip that because there's this element of "Oh no, I want to preserve it and make sure it lasts and make sure"... Well, I think we can do that in a lot of aspects of our life. Maybe there's an aspect of sex that, that could apply. Because we do have variances in us as people of, if each time doesn't reach a certain standard, does it diminish the feeling I associate with it? Which is kind of what I'm hearing from her, the quickies three or four times a week, which that's a lot compared to what average-

Pam Allan: It is, a lot.

Corey Allan: ... sexual encounters are for couples that are married. But it still does it diminish it? Well, it sounds like it does to her. Okay. So then we have to pivot this to the two choice dilemma of she wants sex on her terms, which is defined by when she deems its special, not her husband's terms. Yet she still wants a vibrant marriage.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: There's the dilemma. Because what she's asking is, "It's my body, why do I have to change for the sake of what someone else wants?" When that's exactly what she's asking her husband to do-

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: ... with the stance she's taking.

Pam Allan: Right. Right.

Corey Allan: That's the dilemma of marriage.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: I'm not going to say either one of you are right or wrong, that's just the dilemma that happens in marriage.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: "I want what I want, and by me saying that I put you in a quandary because now you have to face what you want. It's usually counter at times or altered slightly from what I want."

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So there's the struggle and I think the way you get through this is you ask these questions of, "Okay, what is it that actually makes this moment or these moments special? What does that mean?"

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Right?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Is it the occasions?

Pam Allan: Well, is it the occasions? From my perspective, the specialness is the connection. If we've gone longer than usual without having sex, I notice a difference in our relationship and it's not because one of us is shunning the other or mad at the other, it's just we haven't taken that time to just be us and have that connection together.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: To me, that's what makes that special. I can see that just in the way I feel in the dynamic between us. Right?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: And so to me, what makes it special is getting to get together and have that connection. Even it doesn't have to be long and drawn out. It doesn't have to be 40 minutes, 50 minutes, but we see each other and [crosstalk 00:23:00] we know that we're there and want each other and want to take the time for each other. That's the piece to me that makes it special.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Pam Allan: If I'm just saying that birthday sex is what's special, or Christmas sex is what's special, that's about some event. It's not about my marriage and it's not about my wanting to be connected to you as my spouse.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: That's why I'd love to hear this definition of special.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. Then you have to also add a component to this, of her comment of, "It's pretty invasive, a man penetrating a woman."

Pam Allan: Sure it is. Sure it is.

Corey Allan: So women in my history of working in the field now, women have a variety of different definitions of what that means. Some are-

Pam Allan: Of what invasive means? Or-

Corey Allan: Of what being penetrated means.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Because there's sometimes based on a woman's upbringing, or abuse that has happened in their life, or being taken advantage of where they were powerless in some regards as children or teenagers, that dramatically alters that event.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: That it's not a inviting to be penetrated. It's a being violated. There's a different distinction with each of those words. Right?

Pam Allan: Yes there is.

Corey Allan: So it's recognizing that, what does that mean? I'm not going to jump to the, well, does she have some trauma in her background or what? But I think it's worth at least bringing up the topic for other people that are listening and for her of what does that mean?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Inviting somebody in versus somebody invading.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Two different things.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So this is one of those recognizing the power inherent in the sex act for a woman to invite to receive that penetration, is a different framework rather than I'm being invaded. So again, this is where it's asking the questions of what do these words mean? What do the terms mean? How do I make sense of them? Do I need to deal with some stuff from the past or deal with some stuff from the present that... Okay, I need to, I need to challenge what does this really mean?

Corey Allan: Because I think that's how we both, husband and wife learn the dynamic of our journey together better. Whew. I need to breathe a little bit after the extended content.

Pam Allan: Get another cup of coffee.

Corey Allan: I might need too, absolutely. Recording this in the morning as we're recording, it's like, "Wow, that's a heavy way to start a day."

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Is to unpack some of the different aspects of us as people.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: But the thing I love the most, I think about Sexy Marriage Radio and the nation, babe, is the fact that they speak up and they ask the tough ones, and they bring up the tough topics. This isn't just five steps to satisfy your partner in bed regularly.

Pam Allan: No.

Corey Allan: Let's go the deeper aspects of life because that's where life really takes place.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: That's where we all need to learn to confront, what are the meanings I've attached to them what's the landscape in how I view the aspect is special? Does that mean rare, or can that be applied to a whole lot more? But I will say one of the things that is special is the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway. Let's just end it right there because-

Pam Allan: It's so much fun.

Corey Allan: It is so much fun. And it only comes around once a year.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: If you think they're special, getaway sex.

Pam Allan: There you go.

Corey Allan: Come on, now.

Pam Allan: There you go.

Corey Allan: This has been Sexy Marriage Radio. We're so glad you take some time out of your week each and every day each and every week, you know how I'm going with this? We're so glad you spent the time with us-

Pam Allan: Easy for you to say.

Corey Allan: It was easier for me to say. So if we left something undo, let us know 214-702-9565 for feedback at sexymarriageradio.com. We'll see you next time.