Join us at the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway in Indianapolis, June 23-25, 2022 – https://passionatelymarried.net/getaway
On the Regular version of today’s show …
A follow up to Episode #555 – what about the Scriptural concept of marriage is described as being one flesh?
A wife emails as lower desire, yet her husband has given up initiating and expects her to take it over. He’s even said to her “when you’re interested in it, you know where to find me.”
On the Xtended version …
We switch gears and discuss the topic of trauma again, only through a slightly different framework.
We also give some ideas on what to do when triggers from the past occur in the present.
Enjoy the show!
Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio. SMRNation.com. You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allen.
Corey Allan: Well, welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where once again, baby, we go where the SMR nation wants to go.
Pam Allan: We're here.
Corey Allan: And we try to tie up some loose ends from episode 555, just giving a quick little teaser-
Pam Allan: Okay. Okay.
Corey Allan: ... Of where we're going. A couple different things that came up from the show two weeks ago. So, we'll dive into some of those in just a little while. But what we want to know from the SMR Nation is what's going on with you? Because here it is in the middle of winter. It's cold. If you're up north, it's been cold. Just looking at the temperature. But hopefully you're still staying warm and you got a ways to heat up your relationship. Keep it exciting, still feel connected all throughout.
Corey Allan: And if you are getting caught up on something or you have found a trick or a tip that really does help, we want to help spread that and let us know at (214)702-9565, it's where you can call our voicemail line, get to the front of the line and leave a question or a comment or something you may want to add to a conversation that's been going on.
Corey Allan: That's where we're trying to steer the conversations, to have more of a dialogue from the entirety of the nation.
Pam Allan: Appreciate that.
Corey Allan: Because there's a lot already happening on our platform at at my.passionatelymarried.net. And so let's bring some of that forward and have even more dialogues. And we also ask you to help us spread the word. Jump on iTunes, write and review, leave a comment. And that way everybody gets to hear about Sexy Marriage Radio and what's going on.
Pam Allan: That's the goal.
Corey Allan: And so we've mentioned this before, that June 23rd through the 25th in Indianapolis, Indiana is this year's Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway.
Pam Allan: That's right.
Corey Allan: And rather than us talking about it, we're going to let some of the words from some people that have come before talk about it.
Pam Allan: Yeah. A couple reviews we have. Testimonies. This one says, "I'm so impressed by the things I learned that have more to do with myself than about my husband or us as a couple. I'm excited to get home and begin the work of the long game."
Corey Allan: That was a phrase that was used a lot, of how marriage is a long game. This says, "At the very least, this conference helped us have a framework to discuss and move our development forward in creating a more open and intimate relationship together."
Pam Allan: And we have another that says, "This getaway is set up well for learning new things about relating in marriage, as well as a refresher course. Having plenty of couple time and not being stuck in meetings the whole time rounds it out perfectly."
Corey Allan: And that's a strategic decision we've made.
Pam Allan: Right. We want it to actually be a getaway for you guys and have some fun.
Corey Allan: And we've landed on a really good framework, I think. That works, that allows some really good content, some really good discussions and dialogues between your spouse and you, and then other couples as well because you get to meet some other cool people that will be there. But then a lot of times just for yourselves.
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: And so then this is the last one. This is really one of those things that speaks to me in the sense that there's a heart behind what we do that says, "My husband and I were sponsored," which we've had some great generous members of the nation that have called up and said, "Hey, we want to get somebody that hasn't a chance to go." So, "We're currently going through a really rough patch." She gave him the ring back, the whole nine yards. "And when we weren't talking, sleeping in separate rooms, God put it in my heart we need to go to the getaway. I didn't know what that meant especially since I couldn't even look at him. Well two days later, Corey emailed me about someone sponsoring us. And I knew in my spirit that that was God. So, so God. He knew we needed this. We needed the weekend. It has entirely been a testimony for us, for how good God is. For the first time since April 2021, I have hope. Thank you, guys."
Corey Allan: So, it's just very, very cool to think how many times people can be coming in really bad spots too, and a chance to get away, a chance to get a different framework, hear from a lot of other people, get an idea that, "You know what? You're not alone in the struggle." And that's what we try to do here with the Sexy Marriage Radio each and every week and the getaways just a deep dive into that.
Corey Allan: So, if you're interested, come to SMRnation.com/getaway. Sign up now, June 23rd through the 25th, and registration is filling up fast and the early bird rate goes away April 15th. So, we hope to see you there. Well, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, it's a couple your questions and some follow up from the time before on the episode 555, It's My Body. Particularly on that one segment, there's some follow up and some questions that we're going to dive into.
Corey Allan: And then on the extended content of Sexy Marriage Radio today, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at passionatelymarried.net/smracademy. We're going to, again, follow up the conversation we did on the world of trauma in that episode. But we're going to pivot a little bit as we often are prone to do with SMR.
Pam Allan: Okay. Is this from a call or?
Corey Allan: There's some feedback that's come in, and then we're going to go at it from a slightly different framework.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: So, all that's coming up on today's show.
Speaker 5: Hi there. My name is Audrey and I'm calling to mention something that stood out to me for the last episode, It's My Body, the phone call from the gal who said it's my body, it was a difficult message to listen to for me, I'm not going to lie. But something that stood out to me, and I don't know what her level of faith is, but just the line, "It's my body."
Speaker 5: I'm guessing that probably a lot of your listeners are believers. And so in the Bible, it talks about when we're married, we become one flesh and that should never be something that's taken advantage of. But it's also a perspective that is different from the world. And so I'm just curious. I don't know if I've ever heard you address this on an episode, but I'm curious what you would have to say to that because in marriage, it's no longer just about you.
Speaker 5: So, every decision that one person makes impacts the other. And so, how does that play into her saying, "It's my body"? I know there's things in marriage that I do that may just be chores, or it may be a meal that I make or things that I wouldn't do if I wasn't married to my husband, but I am and I love him and I care about him, so I choose to make those of choices because I know it's in his best interest. And so how do we bring that into sex, I guess, is what I'm asking?
Speaker 5: And then she also talks about it being special. And I was just thinking about it in terms of meals. You have a special meal, you might have your favorite meal on your birthday or something like that. But I definitely make all of my food taste good. Every time I sit down to eat, I plan on fully enjoying it. I plan on it being good. And so within sex, there is sex that is maybe not as special because it's not ... Maybe you have a time or the location, or it's quick because you've got kids that need you, that it's still good. And then there are those times when it's very special. So, it doesn't diminish it being special at all and I think you guys covered that very well and touched on it, but that's what I compared it to.
Corey Allan: So there's a couple things in here. One, she's talking about out the caller, the idea of, "If we have it too often, it's no longer special." And then the other is, "What do you do with the biblical concept of one flesh? Of leave and cleave and become one flesh." Genesis chapter two, and then referred to several times in the New Testament by Paul in some of his writings.
Corey Allan: But I want to start with the latter and then we'll go to the former, of the, "How do you do it with special-" Because I love the framework because this plays out between you and I, of the difference in how we approach sex and also the differences in how we approach food.
Pam Allan: Oh yeah.
Corey Allan: One's a higher desire on one and the other.
Pam Allan: I'm definitely the higher desire for food, yes.
Corey Allan: And vice versa.
Pam Allan: So, I loved her comparison with the meal planning. That makes sense to me.
Corey Allan: Absolutely, it does. Sometimes it's very beneficial to recognize what's a corollary to the one that you have this attention. If I'm the higher desire for sex, which I am, which it's on my mind similar to food could be on your mind. Which is true.
Pam Allan: Yes.
Corey Allan: Because I don't sit and think about my food and, and plan ahead.
Pam Allan: But I do.
Corey Allan: Absolutely, she does. So sometimes just having a correlation to realize, okay, wait, you do this same thing in this arena. I do it in this arena. Now we have a better framework to recognize the plight between us.
Pam Allan: Well, okay. Yes. But to go back to that original caller, when she's talking about, I make my food to taste good, right? When I'm making a meal, I don't do it just to get it out of the way or make it a quickie. I make it to taste good. And that's because I've got a spouse that I want him to have something that tastes good.
Corey Allan: Right.
Pam Allan: Right. That doesn't diminish the value or the specialness.
Corey Allan: Right. And so the corollary can work when it comes to sex on the higher desire to make sure it's a pleasurable, good experience on both accounts, that it's not just one sided, that's a great framework to look at how that plays out, but I think it's also a good framework to look at how do I approach, like she's describing. But then let's go to the former of her comment of, "What about the one flesh?"
Corey Allan: Because this is one of those things that gets caught up and in some ways gets weaponized when it comes to Christian marriages, religious marriages.
Pam Allan: In some ways, yeah.
Corey Allan: Because scriptures can be something that call us to something better and higher in ourselves, out of ourselves, God's kingdom, but also scriptures have been used as weapons to put obligation on my spouse, to pressure my spouse and become spiritually abusive even at times. "No, but it says this and don't deny each other and all that."
Corey Allan: And it's like, okay, you got to keep everything in context first and foremost when you're talking about scripture usage. But you also have to recognize when you're talking about one flesh, I personally believe that is not a sexual reference only. I think it's an entity and the corollary in there, and I don't know if we have talked about this on the show before, I've talked about this on some of the coaching calls in the academy. But I personally believe the one flesh mindset is more a reference to the sexual union of you actually are attached to one another anatomically, but it also is two people create one thing when you procreate, or multiple things if you have twins, triplets-
Pam Allan: Well, there's that.
Corey Allan: ... Beyond. But it's the two entities create one. And I think that fits into this framework. But I think we have to spill it out further like she's describing of, we become one emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, financially, across the board. Because what I do impacts you and vice versa when we become one entity together because we create a household.
Corey Allan: If you follow a lot of the tradition that's particularly been in the west, you even give up a last name. Right. That's what you did. Not all women do. That's not a judgment on either side. But that's the side. That's a step that shows-
Pam Allan: Symbol.
Corey Allan: A symbol. There you go. That's what I was looking for. That shows this is something we are creating together that we're establishing together. And so I think about this as when you start talking about what does this mean and how does this really play out if I'm coming from a faith based tradition, I think that it does put impetus on the fact that sex is a part of a marriage. It's an expectation in a sense that that's the one place it takes place where it does not take place in any other relationships we've got.
Corey Allan: But it also symbolizes we're called to something more. We're sharing ourselves. We're creating something bigger and what we create and establish together. But I don't cease, it does not give me license to your body.
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: Because while the scriptures, and this is the one thing that I wanted to at least land on for sure, the scriptures do make reference, because culturally at the time of the writings, of the scriptures, slavery was a reality. And so it does talk about that. Slaves honor your masters. But it does not ever condone slavery or encourage slavery, which sometimes if we weaponize scripture, that's actually what's being done.
Corey Allan: Because it's basically saying, "I have a right to your body." So, therefore it's mine. Look at that as a bell curve, if we go too far, we are way into the extremes that that's out of context. That's now demeaning. That's not looking at a person as a child of God, calling them to something more, and also giving them the choice to what do I want to do? Do I want to give myself to you and enjoy the meal you've created for me? Or do I just want to eat it begrudgingly?
Corey Allan: And so it's just recognizing, I think there's a tension that's here, but we got to keep it in context because it's not an edict saying this is a demand that must be done. It's more of a framework that calls us to something more.
Corey Allan: This is an email that's been in the queue for a little while from a wife that says, "I've been married for 20 years. My husband and I have sex about once a week and it's only if I, the wife, initiate it. My husband has told me he gives up because he wants it more than I do. He's stopped being affectionate with me throughout the day and tells me that if I want sex, I know where he's at. It makes me feel like I'm the only one responsible at this point for sex in our marriage. I feel as though he truly doesn't care about me because he puts forth no effort and has clearly stated that to me. But then he is very clear, he'd definitely have more sex if I did it more. What do I do, because I genuinely love making love to him but I feel as though he resents me for not making love more? Thank you for the show. It's amazing."
Corey Allan: So, here's the tension. Some major moves have been made that aren't necessarily coming from the good and the best.
Pam Allan: Yeah. So back up, because I think maybe I missed something here.
Corey Allan: Okay.
Pam Allan: He resents her for not having sex more ...
Corey Allan: But he's one that's not ...
Pam Allan: But he's not initiating?
Corey Allan: His move has been, "Well, you know I'm interested. So, the ball's in your court."
Pam Allan: Because he's the higher desire and he's sick of getting turned down.
Corey Allan: Right.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: So, he's now made the call of, "I'm not going to make any moves on this. It's all up to you."
Pam Allan: For some reason, I thought it said in there that she was the higher desire.
Corey Allan: No, she loves having sex with him.
Pam Allan: Oh, okay. Maybe that's where I confused it in my head.
Corey Allan: But she's not the one that initiates it.
Pam Allan: Okay. So, she does like it.
Corey Allan: This is that this is that framework that we've heard from several different people throughout the years of SMR, Pam, that they are the lower desire when it comes to initiating sex in their marriage. But they want to be pursued by their higher desire spouse. They want to, they want-
Pam Allan: They enjoy sex.
Corey Allan: They enjoy it. They just don't want to seek it to the level their spouse does. But their spouse doesn't get it as much as they want, so now they make the move of, "Well then, I'm done." And sometimes it's a covert move, but it sounds like this husband has said, "Yeah, I'm not initiating it anymore. So when you want it, you know where I am." Which is a ...
Pam Allan: That's a bad move.
Corey Allan: It's a fascinating move to me.
Pam Allan: Why is that fascinating?
Corey Allan: Because it's self defeating for both of you.
Pam Allan: Right, right.
Corey Allan: Because it's not an integrity move.
Pam Allan: No, it's not.
Corey Allan: It's a pity party move. It's a lower than, it's a one down. There's a lot of things in there that's just like, really?
Pam Allan: And talk about something that's a desire killer right there.
Corey Allan: Yeah.
Pam Allan: Okay. But we've got to just speak to her because she's the one emailing in, we can't speak to him and his moves.
Corey Allan: So, there's two things to jump out, or two phrases she makes. The first one is, "It makes me feel like I'm the only one responsible at this point for sex in our marriage." Which is true.
Pam Allan: Based off of what he said, yes.
Corey Allan: The way it is unfolded, she's the only one responsible for it actually happening. Granted, the dynamic and the tension and the pre and the erotic between you, the interplay between you, could still maybe manifest itself. But the actual having of it, it sounds like it's completely her responsibility.
Corey Allan: So, that is true. She's accurate in that statement in the way she's framing it. So then she follows, the next sentence is, "I feel as though he truly doesn't care about me because he puts forth no effort. And he's clearly stated that."
Pam Allan: He's clearly stated that he doesn't care or that he's not going to put forth any effort?
Corey Allan: That's what I think she has to delineate between. He doesn't care about her or he doesn't care about initiating the sex? Because could he be demonstrating care in other ways? Because sometimes we take these things, and this is one of those tensions that happens when we overreact to the dynamic and it not unfolding the way we hope it would or wish it would, we overreact to realizing, "Okay, wait, they are rejecting sex. They're not rejecting the entirety of me."
Corey Allan: And for some people, it's an incredibly fine line because they haven't distinguished between those two, of, "You know what? They still do like me. They still do love me. They want to do life with me. They're just not interested in sex as much as I am, or the way I am, or when I am, or whatever." So, sometimes it's beneficial to put some qualifiers on those questions to be more accurate and to shore myself up to realize, okay, so what is it that keeps her as the lower desire initiator? If she really does enjoy it? That's a good question to ask herself.
Pam Allan: Yeah. That's perfectly valid and ...Yeah. Sorry. I'm thinking down the road, well, okay, so what are you going to do now? If the ball's in your core and you've got to initiate to make something happen. What are you going to do? What is the ultimate dilemma here of the next step?
Corey Allan: Okay. So, here's the way it's framed from what she's written. This is what I'm reading and is her map. She knows the balls in her court, but she also knows he harbors resentment when it's not according to his wishes. So, therefore he has not truly given up the reins.
Pam Allan: Because he wants to be in control of how it happens.
Corey Allan: He's not pursuing in a positive, he's pursuing in a negative. I don't get what I want, I'll punish you rather than me seeking what I want.
Pam Allan: And he doesn't even see the forest for the trees, that he's punishing himself.
Corey Allan: True. But for her move, I think one of the best things she can do is recognize, okay, so in some regards there needs to be a phrase that might be something similar to, "Okay, honey. So, just so we're clear, you want sex more than I do. I do enjoy sex when we have it. So, you've basically given the reigns to me to make it happen. But you punish me when it doesn't happen according to the way you want it. So, therefore you haven't given me the reins. So, just be clear if you're not going to make any moves on this or pursue our sex life, it's going to be according to what I want."
Pam Allan: Just so we're on the same page.
Corey Allan: Bring it right out in the open. "We'll have it when I'm interested then. Okay." Because sometimes the covert things, that's what reeks the most havoc.
Pam Allan: That's a good clarification.
Corey Allan: And when you can bring it out into the overt, sometimes then that puts the pressure cleaner on each shoulders to realize, okay, honey, you have a choice of you punish me because you don't get it the way you want or you make moves because it's what you want. That's your frame.
Corey Allan: And mine is I accept what you're interested in and coming after or I seek out what I'm interested in. But if I feel like I'm being treated poorly because it's not according to your terms, I'm going to start telling you so.
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: And then at least you shift the dynamic because then she starts to recognize, "Okay, how are my moves in line with my character and what I want?Not what he wants, necessarily. I take influence from that, but he doesn't get to be the sole determinant for me."
Pam Allan: I was going to say, it's funny, that goes back to the last subject we were just on, the lady calling in about, "I take into account what my husband likes. If I'm making something for dinner, I take into account if he does or doesn't like something."
Pam Allan: It is good in a relationship to try and think about what is it that my spouse likes? If it's in the sexual arena, what does turn them on? And maybe we try and go there. But I also have to look at me. What do I enjoy? What turns me on? What gets me going? What makes me have that connection and go from there? That's from the best in her, so try that. What is it? Examine it.
Corey Allan: Yeah. But on top of that, Pam, it's also the willingness to just call out the dynamic cleaner between you.
Pam Allan: Agreed.
Corey Allan: Because when you can do that, then you at least have leveled the groundwork between you. And now all of a sudden when he does pout or get upset or show any kind of a resentful move or comment about it, you can at least claim it better and say, "Okay, so you're saying you would've like to have had sex again last night? Okay. Well then let me know. I'm interested. You know that too." And now at least you have a better dialogue about the tension, so you can both approach it better and it's not as personal.
Pam Allan: And then it's not mounting and mounting and mounting where it's this giant elephant trampling through the house, tearing everything down. Call it out as you see it in a non-elevated and escalated tone and maybe we can actually have a conversation and really get somewhere, right?
Corey Allan: Right. Well, let's end it with this because this reminds me of years ago, Pam, you probably remember this when I was heading off for a conference for a week. And as the evening was winding down, our kids were littler, so we actually had a bedtime routine for them and they would be in bed early and we had an evening.
Corey Allan: And I just made a comment of, "Hey, you're not going to have access to this for a full five days. So, you might want to take advantage of that tonight." And you're like, "Oh, okay." And you kind of gave one of those sophisticated, "Yeah. I'm okay with that." Without necessarily shooting it down nor saying, "Yeah, let's go." It's that, "Yeah. I'm good with it unfolding that way."
Corey Allan: And then the evening went on and you fell asleep and we wake up in the morning and I'm like, "What gives?" Because I had thought I'd already made my move. That was my framework, where I was wrong. And I was like, "I thought we were going to have sex last night."
Corey Allan: And you're like, "Yeah, no, you didn't make a move." And I'm like, "Yeah, I ... Did ... Well, no, I really didn't. Did I?" That's the level at which this unfolds, is sometimes we get in our own way. Our partners interested, but it still has to be something overt and intentional to get it into that arena completely. It's not just a suggestion of the thought that makes it always happen. Someone still has to lead towards it and there's an interplay that plays out there with couples all the time.
Pam Allan: There's got to be actions in addition to the words.
Corey Allan: Exactly.
Speaker 7: Hey Corey, responding to episode 555, the woman, about the specialness of sex, scarcity, and abundance. And there's just so many ways that scarcity abundance can come into that conversation. And one that came to mind was just around the types of sex and how sex can look and thinking of Ian Kerner's book about sex scripts and tell me the last time you had sex and how the sex scripts could be creating this sense of scarcity when in the whole combinations of what sex can look like, there can be such a huge abundance in that. And just bringing that aspect into the conversation with her.
Corey Allan: And we're going to leave it at that because the framework of scarcity and abundance, it's a good way to look at all of life. Everything is short and I don't have enough of it, or we live in an abundant world where there's plenty to go around.
Pam Allan: Two totally different aspects.
Corey Allan: And I think history has shown we live in an abundant world.
Pam Allan: Yeah, it does.
Corey Allan: There's a lot to go around. Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone or we need to keep going with something, we want you join into our conversation. (214)702-9565 feedback at sexymarriageradio.com. You can even create a little audio of your voice, send it in and help round out our conversation because we all are better when everybody's involved. We'll see you next time.
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