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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

Over-Reaction To My Spouse’s Over-Reaction #630

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And save the date!!! The 2024 Passionately Married Getaway is June 13-15, 2024.

On the Regular Version …

Pam and I get into a conversation about how we as married people can so often find ourselves over-reacting to our spouse’s over-reaction.

Why does this happen?

What can we do to stop it?

On the Xtended Version …

Author and modern-day monk, Jay Shetty has a 4 E formula for better relationships. We discuss what they are and if we agree with him.

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Corey Allan: Well, welcome to the show and we've gotta start off with one quick housekeeping, uh, message. What's that? I guess you would say? Uh, this is, as we're recording this one in 2023. This is the first year in a long time, minus Covid, the covid year of We didn't have a getaway.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Kind of miss it.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. Cuz it would've like just happened. Uh mm-hmm. . So we would be talking about, here's the show that we recorded while at the getaway and .

Pam Allan: Not this year,

Corey Allan: Not this year, but mark your calendars. June 13th through the 15th of 2024, which is a Thursday. We start in the afternoon, we wrap up Saturday night late with our dance. Mm-hmm. , uh, and then you on Sunday. It's Father's Day again. So Happy Father's Day, way in advance, way in advance to all you fellows out there. Um, but mark your calendars, come join us. We're in the DFW area back at the Marriott, uh, Dallas, Fort Worth, west Lake. I think they changed their names. A lot of words. Yeah. They changed the name. But, uh, more information will be coming out, uh, in the coming weeks and months on registration costs and everything. But mark the dates June 13th through the 15th, 2024 and come join us in the DFW area and get away with your spouse and a lot of other passionately married couples. Yeah. Well, welcome to the show though, .
This is Dr. I'm Dr. Corey Allen, alongside my wife, Pam, where we're having honest conversations to help curate and cultivate the space between you and your spouse. Mm-hmm. . And where we're heading today, in today's episode is we're going to talk about a phenomenon I see all the time with clients and even in our marriage. All right. At times. Absolutely. Cuz we will be real life personal plus, uh, a little clinical today. Um, but there's a phrase that I, that I love to use when it's talking about the way we interact with each other as, as couples. And sometimes it's, we overreact to our partner's. Overreaction

Pam Allan: Fair? Yes. I can see. Yes, we

Corey Allan: Do. And so today

Pam Allan: That'll be fun to talk about. We're

Corey Allan: Going to dive into that phenomenon or that concept of what's going on. What are some of the factors that help contribute to this, and then most importantly, what do we do about it? And then on the extended content today, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can slash academy. And if you use the code Summer 23, when you sign up, you get your first month free. If you join the academy or masterclass level on the monthly level, you get a chance to taste out what the academy's all about mm-hmm. and get the extended content one month free. Wonderful. So take advantage of that. But we're going to jump into, Jay Shetty is a author I came across, uh, last year mm-hmm. . And he wrote a book called Think Like A Monk, and now he's got eight rules, uh, for love and life or something. I'm, I've, I've worked through part of that, but I haven't read all of it. But he, it's a, he's a modern day monk. Okay. Is, is the way you'd think about him. And he's got a fantastic story. But he has four E's is his formula for a relationship. And he has four different words to start with letter E. And we're gonna dive into what do those, what are they and what do we think about them? And this is what helps create a good relationship in his mind.

Pam Allan: It's interesting for a monk who, you know, this show is about marriage, a monk to be giving the relationship.

Corey Allan: Well, we can explain his story more in the extended

Pam Allan: Context. I realize relationship is more than just marriage. Well, but

Corey Allan: He is married though, and he lives in New York City. So he is no longer a month thus than he did three years Okay. At a monastery. Okay. And for health reasons, he had to leave. Okay. And then he picked up life, but he's tried to keep a lot of that same, uh, characteristics in his life today.

Pam Allan: Interesting.

Corey Allan: And so all that's coming up on today show. So we tease this out at the beginning, that, um, a lot of what happens in close confine relationships is I will say something, you will react to it. I will react to your reaction and off we go. Right? Yes.

Pam Allan: And so I can see that's a, could be a normal cycle on

Corey Allan: Extreme circumstances. It becomes overreactions to overreactions, which then you're on and on and on and on and on and on. And so this is one of those things that what I think about we, to set the stage for this, we probably need to give some of the people, we've had a lot of influx of people lately mm-hmm. that have found us mm-hmm. , uh, via Instagram or YouTube or just regular listeners that are mm-hmm. , you know, of podcasts that have found us. And we need to set the stage of some of the general concepts we believe here at Passionately Married mm-hmm. . Um, because one, we believe that marriage is designed to help grow us up. That I think it's a institution, a character, a relationship implemented by God, a covenant that is a mirror of other things. But one of the primary purposes of marriage for the two humans in my mind is just to help you grow up. Period. I mean, what better way to do that than be faced with somebody you love and will drive you crazy

Pam Allan: All at the same time, or

Corey Allan: Will overreact to your things that you say or, or believe or like, and they'll have an overreaction to it, and then you'll overreact to that and off you go. Yeah. And so happily Ever After is a myth from Hallmark and Hollywood, but we believe biblically speaking, God cares more about your character and your wisdom. And so marriage is designed to produce conflict to help you grow up. Okay. That's the point of it. Secondarily, we also believe that everything you do in marriage communicates.

Pam Allan: Right. So the common thing that people typically come to you and say is, well, we just don't communicate. We can't.

Corey Allan: Right. We can't, we can't communicate at all. We have trouble communicating.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And your response typically is, well, you're communicating just fine. Right. You, you each, you just don't other like what they're

Corey Allan: Saying, can you make each other mad? Yeah. Well then you're communicating just fine.

Pam Allan: Right. You just don't like what it is being said.

Corey Allan: Right. You don't like the messages being delivered mm-hmm. and you don't like having to handle that message. Because a lot of times it goes up against this preconceived, idealized, this is what relationship will be. So therefore, I mean, I, I'll use this in my example. Okay. In, in our world, um, I have a lot of different times where I fall victim to, you'll have read my mind so that you should understand what I'm talking about. Like, we were out this past week on a vacation, just you and I and I'm outside grilling, and you come outside and I say, Hey, did you bring the knife so I could check the doneness of the steaks that I was grilling? And you're, did you ask me to bring a nut? Did you see? Because I was just thinking, well, I'm out there grilling, she will have paid attention that I'm out there grilling. She'll think ahead and think, I wonder if he wants to check if there's, if they're done yet or not. No. And on it goes and I, I can fall victim to you'll just pick up on and perceive Right. What's going on in my world. And therefore you'll be proactive to be helpful therein.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And I don't, it doesn't happen. No, it doesn't happen. I didn't know you wanted a knife.

Corey Allan: It doesn't happen. Um, so there's that. But then there's also the idealized, uh, we will, we have the same dreams, we have the same wants. Mm-hmm. , we have the same desires and on big global scales we do, we have a lot of the same kind of dreams, but the nuances within them are vastly different. Mm-hmm. or the timeframes are different. And so anytime I say something that's akin to, Hey, let's go do this in the long, you know, in five, 10 years and you're not fired up about it like I am, I can read that as you're not on board, you've changed your mind. You don't want to be a part of this at all. You might as well, we might as well get divorced. And then this whole thing right now that's an overreaction.

Pam Allan: Yes. Total overreaction.

Corey Allan: But it's part of what goes on in our brains because reality does not line up with idealized. Mm-hmm. and reality also doesn't line up with how our relationship began.

Pam Allan: Mm. True.

Corey Allan: Right. So true. When you first meet and fall in love with somebody, you are actually high. The brain produces a chemical that creates this obsessive longing feeling. And so it's akin to being high. That's where you see the people that are newly met. Yeah. Newly met and newly in, in relationship and they just fawn all over each other all the time. Mm-hmm.

Pam Allan:

Corey Allan: And you're like, wow, I'll just wait. That that'll wear off. Right. Right. Because we all know it, but we love it when we're in it. Right. And so those are natural components and aspects of every relationship. And so when those two worlds collide, as far as reality versus what goes on in my idealized and my conceptualized relationship, there will be conflict in clash both between us and within me.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And you don't see that early on. You think that, well that won't be us, and then here we go. Right. So now where do we go? And then where do we go when I react

Corey Allan: Poorly? And then as this evolves, we have it on various levels and scales cuz we get to where the newness wears off, the shine is gone, different things simultaneous lives start aligning and being conflictual against, alongside each other. Yeah. And some of 'em are so small on the scale, it's not a big deal. Right. It's like, oh, well she doesn't like to do this this way. I like, okay. And it's just like, okay, no big deal. It's a simple little fix. It's just, I'll take care of that. Okay. Right. This is like what we talked about two weeks ago with the overfunctioning world.

Pam Allan: Even, even there sometimes they may be simple, but over time I think those little things feel like a big deal.

Corey Allan: Abso Well, and that's the kind of point I'm I'm setting up is that it adds up when you stack those on top of other things. Mm-hmm. , it's, it's no wonder the the damn breaks and what it broke over is not what the real issue is. It's the little things that you've just let go. Not said anything swallowed, caved to keep the peace, et cetera. Sure. And this is why Jennifer Finlayson five uses the phrase resentment most often comes from cowardice.

Pam Allan: Cuz I won't speak up

Corey Allan: Because you didn't speak up about the little things and it doesn't mean you get your way. Cuz again, this is simultaneous lives going alongside each other in close proximity.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And well, and speaking up about little things doesn't mean you're, um, ugly about it. It just mm-hmm. goes to speak to, um, things that matter to you mm-hmm. and those can be addressed reasonably mm-hmm. on small scales before a dam breaks. Right. And all 30 topics come out at one time. Right.

Corey Allan: Okay. And so this sets the stage for how the normal everyday life is ripe for possibilities of overreactions.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Because you have a world going on that is different than mine. Again, idealized versus reality because we think well, we'll be in lockstep, we'll see things the same, we got the same experiences we, you know, rather than No you're a higher desire in some areas. I'm a lower desire in some areas and we flip those in other areas.

Pam Allan: Well, in reality is I'm not with you 24 7 and if I'm not with someone 24 7 I other things going on,

Corey Allan: Even if you're with somebody 24 7, you have other things

Pam Allan: Going on. Fair. Correct. Correct. That just the way we're, even if we're in business together mm-hmm. , I have different goals and aspirations.

Corey Allan: We see things differently. Yes. And oftentimes shockingly we will, are wired differently to where the things that speak to the deep parts of me are not what speak to you, they could freak you out. Yeah. Right. The dreams, that's the one we talked about in the past is all I'm the dreamer, quote unquote of the big grand scope of things and you're the devil and the details kind of woman I am. And those can be in incredibly conflictual mm-hmm. because I can see it as dream killers. And you could see it as pie in the sky. Why don't you live in reality ?

Pam Allan: Yes. Right. Yes. It, I can totally see how those two come at. They're at odds,

Corey Allan: Right? Yes. So a lot of times what causes our overreactions are different frameworks in which we go about life and relationship. That's kind of the, the basis for our initial reactions as well as you can compound it with timing, situation, circumstance. Mm-hmm. Cuz you know, if you have a tense situation, circumstantially, um, you're traveling, watch, watch overreactions happen in airports.

Pam Allan: Oh my

Corey Allan: Goodness. Watch them happen at train stations. Subways across the board where it's just there, it's already a heightened anxiety

Pam Allan: Situation. Yeah. You, you're, you're not in control of when you leave, how you get there. Mm-hmm. , how you get through security, any of that. And when you're not in control, those situations even more so. Right. Set people on

Corey Allan: Edge. And then we attach a meaning to how our spouse is reacting or not reacting mm-hmm. compared to how I am reacting. I'll take it as why aren't you taking this serious rather than, well you're just don't care about it as much as I do. Or you're more laid back about it, or as more casual or whatever it might be. Mm-hmm. , there's a, there's varying meanings going on. So they come from the fact that we have different lenses through which we view life filter what comes at us. Because again, this goes back to what we talked about last week with Deborah Fileta on the triggers that come into play because our spouse oftentimes will trigger our past cuz they're very, very similar to our past. Otherwise they wouldn't have made enough sense to be in a relationship with to this

Pam Allan: Depth. Accurate. Yeah.

Corey Allan: Well I know you didn't miss episode 6 26.

Pam Allan: No, I did not miss it

Corey Allan: Because you don't miss episodes, particularly when you get on the mic with me every week. Yes. Um, but if you're listening to this and you did miss the episode 6 26 with, with Chandler Rogers, which was entitled, you need to Try, um, this is your chance to go back and listen to it. Chandler's story is an all too common one. He struggled with chronic porn use and because it's all too common, it's affected a lot of marriages out there and a lot of people out there. But he and his wife overcame it and created a group recovery program called Relay, which now in turn helps other people quit pornography usage and any kind of chronic issues that you can have, there's groups that are available that help you walk through this so you're not alone. So in this epi episode, we debunk the myth that your spouse could be your accountability partner to help you quit porn. And we show you why may you need a peer accountability group instead like relay to help. So get go to listen to it soon, use the link in the show notes and go straight to relay or try the, and try the recovery program. Chandler made this to help people quit and overcome the different things. Because what it also does is it helps you strengthen and deepen your intimacy in your marriage, which we all benefit from when we can realize that's a natural occurrence that's gonna happen. And then there's another component we have to add.

Pam Allan: What's

Corey Allan: That? And this is where we get too dug in on the thought process that my memory of an event is golden and completely accurate.

Pam Allan: Uh, that's too close to home right there.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Pam Allan: Right. I mean, I get proven wrong on my thought process of the accuracy of my memory. Right. But you think regularly

Corey Allan: You think it's accurate

Pam Allan: In my world It is.

Corey Allan: You are completely locked in and and this is one of those fascinating things about the fallibility of our brains mm-hmm. and this is something I think universally people need to understand. And there was actually a study done, they called it the space shuttle Challenger study.

Pam Allan: Okay. So the,

Corey Allan: The Challenger, uh, exploded in 1986 mm-hmm. . And so what they did is there was a couple different, uh, colleges at that time that had professors that the day after that happened, cuz it happened one morning, there was school kids all around the world.

Pam Allan: We were watching it and they watched it happen junior high.

Corey Allan: Yeah. Yeah. I did not I, my school didn't, I I missed out, I missed out that day apparently. Um, but the, when we have these vivid flash bold memories that these professors, they took their students and they had them with their own handwriting on a piece of paper, write down where they were immediately after that happened. Okay. Okay. So they've got an accurate accounting

Pam Allan: Of it. I wrote it myself.

Corey Allan: Yeah. Written down. Then they came back three years, five years, 10 years later. Found those students and had them recount orally and from their memory, where were you? Hmm. You know, how many of the oral accountings of their memories matched what was written when they compared the two?

Pam Allan: I'm gonna say none.

Corey Allan: 7%,

Pam Allan: 7%

Corey Allan: Accurately remembered Wow. Where they were and what was going on when that happened

Pam Allan: On a big event like that.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. But it even gets deeper because 50% were wrong in some major details. 66% were wrong in every major detail. Okay. And one student, this is what's so great to me, one student actually said, I know this is my handwriting, but I could not have possibly written this cuz that is not where I was when that happened.

Pam Allan: They didn't trust their own handwriting to say, here's what

Corey Allan: I was doing. No. They brain on their memory was accurate as they look back on it. Then when they actually what wrote about what it was when it happened,

Pam Allan: That's nuts. Or they know they were just a habitual liar. . I guess that's a possibility. I'm not trusting

Corey Allan: Myself. That's a

Pam Allan: Possibility too. I was skipping school that day and I wasn't gonna put it in writing.

Corey Allan: Yeah, that's a possibility too. But it's, but it, it's a great confirmation of how in married life you talk about a recipe for a disaster just waiting to happen of, I don't remember it that way. Hold on. And then we start digging in on the fact fighting missions Mm. Of which account is right. Hmm. Rather than it's two separate accounts Yeah. That are both also fallible and their memory and rec recalling of it. Mm-hmm.

Pam Allan: it. Yeah. And if I'm gonna dig my feet in my heels in to whatever my belief is mm-hmm. and not even be open up to the spouse Wow.

Corey Allan: Which that's the overreacting. Yep. Right. Because it's something was said and then immediately becomes, no, that's not what, and now all of a sudden you change. Cause look at the way this unfolds, uh, communicatively Right. Just on the, on the process of a conversation mm-hmm. , I bring up a subject. Your reaction can either kinda like improv can stay with the premise and keep rolling with it and keep it on topic. Or what often happens is we change the topic even subtly.

Pam Allan: So now we're often rolling about what's not really the issue.

Corey Allan: We're often rolling about the account of the memory rather than the issue.
Okay. Or the fact of it, you know, it's like, remember that time when we were driving along and that thing happened? No, we weren't driving. We, we were writing and you know, and now all of a sudden we're talking about the facts of that rather than the premise was a recounting of an experience as a whole mm-hmm. not the nuances within it. Right. Okay. Or, Hey, did you pay that bill? You said I was gonna, you know, and now all of a sudden it's a, this is, this is where it just so easily becomes your reaction or my reaction if you're bringing something to me can change the topic.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: And then you can overreact to that not recognizing the reason, part of your reason you're overreacting is I changed the subject and you didn't even recognize it, but it feels off the brain's aware enough to know something just was avoided. Something was dodged there,

Pam Allan: Something changed. Well, don't you have times think of that. You get to the, to the paying the bill comment. Okay, I've got a spouse that in our relationship, they maybe are the one that pays the all the bills mm-hmm. , but I've got some bills that are habitually late.

Corey Allan: Mm-hmm. ,

Pam Allan: Well they asked me about a bill. It's really easy to get to that topic and say, seriously, it's late again. Right. And then you're off on that tangent mean, now

Corey Allan: We're on character assassination in qualities.

Pam Allan: If you'll, well you can see it. It's not like as a spouse you, you're just pulling something out of thin air cuz you want to, you may not even be trying to change the subject. It's just that triggers the next topic. Right. I mean, topics trigger another topic. Mm-hmm. trigger another topic. So how do you get to that next point of pain and and address it cleanly and not make it a overreaction?

Corey Allan: That's, yeah, that's a great question. Which we're gonna head to in just a second.

Pam Allan: I'm going too

Corey Allan: Fast. No, no, no. Because that's, that's, but but you need, I want to account for or acknowledge a component that you just made a Yeah. A statement within that is incredibly important in this concept too. Which is you take a action or a statement or a reaction from your spouse personally, I bring up the idea of Oh yeah, hey, that was late again. And you could have the just as a sigh as a reaction. Yeah. And I hear that as a direct hit at my character, which I take personally then,

Pam Allan: Rather than, and it may be or it may not be

Corey Allan: Right. But it's, but usually our reaction of taking something personal is because there's hints if not some percentages of truth built in Yeah. That it is true. I am habitually late with paying for things for example, or, and I'm

Pam Allan: Mad at myself for it or I'm not. Right.

Corey Allan: And so it's, it is recognizing that's what becomes uncovered in these dynamics, particularly in the confines of a marriage cuz it's inescapable. Mm-hmm. in some ways because we're going to step on each other's toes. We're going to find our mixed messages and our best in intentions that we don't follow through. One of my favorites that I think of with this example is, um, when I was in college looking back on all of this, I realized my mother, uh, really loved to express love with things. Yeah. So I would come home for visits to see you and then secondarily them, um, cuz we were dating at the time with usually something for me, like a shirt, a jacket, something that she had found. It's like, oh, that he would love that. And so yeah. But then I also could oftentimes hear, Hey, money's really tight, be careful what you're spending. Cuz they helped fund some of my money of bo room and board mm-hmm. while I was at school, which like, here wait. And so I'm looking back at that going, why are you getting me things if money's tight?

Pam Allan: Right. It was a double message there

Corey Allan: That doesn't make yeah. Sense to me. And so those are the things that get exposed in us and if that's brought out, we don't, usually the best in us won't like that about ourselves sometimes mm-hmm. because it's like, yeah, that's a, I need to do better there. And so you can kind of beat yourself up over that and then let alone your spouse tried to do the same thing with a sigh or a look or a statement or a direct accusation that has some truth in it. Mm-hmm. . And so what do we do about these things? Well the first thing you have to recognize is, is it personal or Okay, would we be better off by staying on topic? And that's where both of us try to become more collaborative in the sense of wait, wait, wait. We're changing the subject. What you're, what you're reacting to could be valid and maybe we need to do this later, but they just change

Pam Allan: The subject. Do we need to, yeah. Maybe we need to circle back. Yep.

Corey Allan: The other is, I am responsible with soothing my emotional bruises, whatever reaction I interpret as an atal, an attack, an assault, a dismissal, whatever. That's a bruising of my emotions. Mm-hmm. of your, of you're doing intentionally or not. It's still a bruising of my emotions. Mm-hmm. . So I am responsible with soothing that if I can't soothe my emotions, I need to control my behavior.

Pam Allan: If you're not good at soothing your emotions, how are you gonna be good at controlling your behavior? You start looking, they seem one and the same to me they

Corey Allan: Are. But this is the point of doing the work after the fact and separating that out to realize, okay, if I look back at how that all went down, I got mad, I got hurt and I attacked, well I could separate that out because there are ample opportunities in my life to be hurt and I don't attack mm-hmm. to be disappointed and I don't lash out. Yeah. Or blame. I have opportunities where I have done that. What's different about those mm-hmm. . And you start just recognizing that work of wait and then you can maybe keep it on task. Because if I'm hurt by a reaction you have, I could maybe do, wait that hurt. I don't wanna keep going. Cuz my, my tendency is I'll lash out and make this personal and I don't wanna do that anymore. And I, and I take a timeout for a second and in our instance I go get a glass of water. That's one of our codes we use all the time. I'm gonna go get a glass of water, which basically means both of us need to be quiet. I'm gonna actually go get a glass of water, drink it, and then I'll come back to this conversation. Or I'll drink another glass and another glass and some days are, or we are well hydrated

Pam Allan: Or I go into the camper, I get you a knife and I come out and I say, you realize that was an awkward conversation. Right. You realize you never asked me for a knife. Right. Right. Yeah. . Right.

Corey Allan: And at least you went to go get a knife when you weren't angry. Cuz that's, that's a whole different thing if you're doing that. But if you can't soothe your emotions, you control your behavior. And then this is the biggest one to kind of add that other question you had of, if you can't do one, how can you do the other if you can't control your behavior, do you look at, you got some instances where you don't do well controlling your behavior, shut your mouth.

Pam Allan: Hmm.

Corey Allan: That's one of the best things you can absolutely do when you get heated or hurt shut your mouth. It still communicates something. It

Pam Allan: Still communicates something. But at least then you're not spitting out knives.

Corey Allan: But here's the thing that's so fascinating about this is if what you're really trying to tell me if this makes sense as we kinda lay on this ship, if you're trying to communicate what I was just communicated about hurt me and my tendency is I react in kind to make sure it's known but it's not landing. If your tendency would be I could be real, uh, vocal and volatile and expressive, a surefire way to really deliver the message of your hurt is don't do it the no way you normally would. You take on yourself differently. Yeah. And you communicate it differently, which could just be that really hurt. I don't want to keep this conversation going for a moment. And you excuse yourself, you talk about freaking a spouse out most likely if that's total 180 of the normal way you guys would go about these things. Cuz then you're both now faced with

Pam Allan: What

Corey Allan: Do I do addressing yourselves mm-hmm. before you address each other. Mm-hmm. . And that's the only way you change this dynamic is you address yourself. For me, one of the things I try to do when I go get glasses of water would be what's being exposed here? That's one of your phrases. Mm-hmm. what's being exposed in me here? Why am I taking this so personal? What do I really, what am I really trying to get across? What's, how am I not being clear how, you know, ask some good questions of is this even that big of a deal ? Right. Is this something that needs to be dealt with now? Yeah.

Pam Allan: Valid. Cuz so many times we make it mm-hmm. things more of a deal than what they

Corey Allan: Are. And when I can ask those questions while I'm drinking a glass of water or taking a time and walking around the block or just sitting outside or just removing myself for a moment, when I come back in from the time out, I have a better chance to be able to come in and say, okay, here's where I think I was off on trying to express this. Mm-hmm. , because again, you have to add this last component. When I'm trying to express my wishes, my wants or my desires, that is entirely different than actually getting them. Yeah. But it's a process of self validation and growth to be able to express them and then work through them with the feedback I get. Because we want it to be collaborative ultimately in marriages mm-hmm. . And for that to happen there has to be choice on both sides.

Pam Allan: And to go back to your initial wording of this about overreacting to my spouse's overreactions, you leaving the situation to go get a drink of water or a spouse just becoming silent stops the domino effect. Mm-hmm. , it, it ideally, ideally, I mean, someone could, someone could be silent to try and hold themself and then their spouse gets ticked off even more and just starts light in even more.

Corey Allan: Right. Because that, that can easily seem like stonewalling. It,

Pam Allan: It could, it could seem that way. Mm-hmm. , uh, obviously body language comes into this mm-hmm. , we talk about words and they mean things and there's a lot of nonverbal communication as well. So the nonverbal communication coming along with this absolutely. Can make someone explode as well. Um, so you gotta take all that into to mind. Right. I'm sure that there's people listening right now that have gone through this same scenario and they, and it's still escalated.

Corey Allan: Mm-hmm. Oh it, it will this. And that's where the fi one of the, the phrases we love here at Pastor Lee married is the marker of a great marriage are two people that recover better. Mm-hmm. , that's it. Because we don't do this well all the time. You and I don't do this well all the time. We have our dust ups sometimes quite frequently.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Not so much anymore, but No.

Corey Allan: But there can be, but not,

Pam Allan: Not. Cause we've

Corey Allan: Learned of it. They're not high, they're not high on the, the scale No. Mm-hmm. as far as volatility. But there's still elements of expressing of things between us. It's like, wow, we would've not done well back then. But it still bothers me or it still impacts you. Yeah. True. Absolutely. And I still have to recover from that. Yeah.
And that's the ability of cognize. We don't do this perfectly mm-hmm. because I, I have a ton of schooling and a lot of work in the whole world of communication skills, but when I get crossed with you or you don't go in the way I want you to go, all that stuff's out the window. I don't just like, I I statements and hold on, you made me feel this, so therefore I would, I don't do that formula stuff. I just get hurt . Right. And either lash out or run. I mean that's my tendencies. Yeah. So it's seeing it as, okay, the process of all of this is, this is a natural process of our developing. And when I can see it as such, the best in me has the opportunity to step up and claim my part in it and then approach it differently next time.
Mm-hmm. and knowing full well when I'm trying to change a system and I change my dance steps. Sometimes the dances are very, very short, but that's okay. I invite 'em back onto the floor again. Yeah. And then again and again and we usually get longer and longer dances as the better we get. Yeah. Because then we can read each other and it doesn't, we don't take it as personal, but we can keep, we can keep the problem, the problem and not us become part of that problem. Yeah. I dunno how long it's been since we've had just topical shows. It's been a hot minute with you and I Yeah, it's been a minute. Um, so it's fun to, it's fun to do deep dives I think. And some of the, just the concepts and ideas cuz it's a refresher for me and for us to, okay.
Oh yeah. That's still going on there. I, oh, I can see that there. Because that's the thing of when I look back at what goes on in my day or my weeks, I know the areas that I felt short or I've overstepped or well, do I have the courage to look back at that, look at the surroundings around it and unpack the elements of Yep. All right. That makes sense there. All right. Because the more I do that, the better I handle things in the moment. Mm-hmm. because we won't always handle 'em well in the moment, but we can shorten that gap between when something happens and when I actually handle it better. Mm-hmm. just by being more and more aware. Yeah. Well if you got some feedback for the show or if we've missed something, uh, or if you just got something you want us to address, let us know. 2 1 4 7 0 2 9 5 6 5 or feedback passionately transcripts are available on each of the show's notes on each of the episode's pages. Also, all our advertisers deals and discount codes are available on each episode's So please consider supporting those who support the show, however you've taken a little bit of time out to spend it with us. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.