Announcer: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, passionatelymarried.net.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where each and every week we try to answer the questions that are on the nation's minds and they let us know, Pam, by calling us at 214-702-9565, or email us at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. As we start the show today, Pam, what do you do if I give you these prompts?

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: A hammock, a remote place, and your spouse.

Pam Allan: Well, there's a few things that come to mind.

Corey Allan: Do tell.

Pam Allan: Well, it might be just laying in the hammock together-

Corey Allan: Fair enough.

Pam Allan: ... napping. It might be a remote place, so I'm assuming I'm picturing it on a beach under a palm tree and it's a private beach. Nobody else is around.

Corey Allan: Fantastic idea there.

Pam Allan: So take your mind and roll with that one.

Corey Allan: Well, and that's an idea that came from one of our sponsors, The Adventure Challenge in Bed book.

Pam Allan: Nice.

Corey Allan: Which, they give you prompts. They give you encouragements of things that you can do that will spice up your sex life and your relationship and your intimacy, so sometimes it's real specific, sometimes it's just for the connection. I love this idea because it worked for us, and it may or may not have been in a campground. I'm not saying anymore than that. Well, this is Sexy Marriage Radio. If you want to take advantage of our sponsor, The Adventure Challenge in Bed, then we're going to encourage you to-

Pam Allan: Or in a hammock.

Corey Allan: You can do it in bed or in a hammock, absolutely. Go to theadventurechallenge.com and use our code SMR 20. That'll get you 20% off of the book. Again, that's theadventurechallenge.com. Use our code SMR 20 to get 20% off. We thank them so much for not only being a sponsor of our show, but also just helping marriages, liven things up and deepen the connection.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: Well, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, we're going to do, I guess, it's like a hybrid rapid fire, longer-

Pam Allan: Pseudo rapid fire-

Corey Allan: ... longer answers. We've got a queue of questions that we're going to try to work our way through as far as we can, but we're going to go a little deeper with them.

Pam Allan: Okay, but they're from the Christian Do Curse Sometimes.

Corey Allan: Yeah. Still get a chance to collaborate and answer questions from his audience, and this is something that came in a couple weeks back and ran on his stories. But this is one that I want to just take and answer some of them a little bit further-

Pam Allan: Perfect-

Corey Allan: ... and build off of that, because it's just great to hear from a vast array of people with a lot of different questions. Today, everybody gets the full show.

Pam Allan: Sweet.

Corey Allan: All that's coming up today on the show.

Pam Allan: All right. So we're starting off with our first question. I'm going to read the questions and you-

Corey Allan: I'll-

Pam Allan: ... give us the answer, Dr. Allan.

Corey Allan: I'll answer, but then I'll also ask you to answer some of them just because-

Pam Allan: Perfect.

Corey Allan: ... it's more fun that way.

Pam Allan: Sounds good. Sounds good. Okay. Number one, "How should husbands find a good place for consent in marriage? I love to pursue my wife and she says she loves to be touched unexpectedly and romantically, but something to me feels wrong about just touching her. But when I ask, 'Hey, can I touch your boobs?' It just kills the mood."

Corey Allan: That is a mood killer.

Pam Allan: Totally a mood killer.

Corey Allan: "Is it okay if I touch you here?" Oh yeah, because this is one of those weird, interesting societally-based questions right now, because consent's a real deal.

Pam Allan: It is.

Corey Allan: Right? It is something that matters on a large scale as a civilized population.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: But what's interesting to me is in marriage. Marriage already has a certain level of assumed consent-

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm, I would agree.

Corey Allan: Namely that it's a sexual relationship.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: So hear this very, very clearly to anybody that's listening in the nation, that does not mean no isn't a complete sentence and must be honored.

Pam Allan: It should be honored, yes.

Corey Allan: And it does not mean that there are times, unfortunately, across the country and across the globe where this is abused, this idea of consent. "Well, you said so, so therefore I can do whatever I please." So with his question, what's interesting to me is, he's struggling with his own wrestling with this word, not hers.

Pam Allan: Yeah. She doesn't seem to have a problem. She likes to be touched unexpectedly. She likes to be touched romantically. He's the one that feels wrong touching her. Who knows what went on in his past, his history, or if it's just he's hearing all these things in the news and society and thinks every time he touches his wife, he's got to get permission.

Corey Allan: Yeah. There's also an element, I think, that plays out in marriage, particularly with men that I've come across and this has been my own journey to a degree as well, that were raised in a Christian mindset worldview that the aggressiveness, the assertiveness with our sexual nature, it's hard to come to grips with. How do I have a more raw carnal edge at times? Because there is a dichotomy and polarity that plays out with a lower desire wife and a higher desire husband and the whole world of being taken that sometimes for some of the lower desire women I've talked to, they love that idea of feeling the power and the prowess and that energy that comes within.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Yeah. That's where you got to have open communication with the spouse.

Corey Allan: But that's that idea of, "Do I have to have consent to express that?" That's where sometimes as a husband, I think, and as a man there's this whole, "It's right on the edge and it just feels uncomfortable. I'm not uncomfortable with that and myself."

Pam Allan: But if she's made it clear she wants to be taken-

Corey Allan: So this is his growth opportunity to see how does he explore what it is she's already welcomed and grow into what it is he wants to become and try it out. So good on him for asking that question, and also good on you for having a certain level of respect for women in general to where that's on the radar, because that probably means you treat women well.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Good job.

Pam Allan: All right. Second question, "I've been married 10 years to a man with an extremely high sex drive. The past few years have been better and I've been able to give him a "hand" when I'm not in the mood, but recently it's gotten more transactional. Nearly every single night. I give him a hand and we have full sex maybe once a month. I want to help him, but don't want to have sex that often either."

Corey Allan: Okay. The first thing that rings to me in this is, what is it that each of them are seeking in the act of sex together and individually? What's the meaning they've attached to it, because this sounds like this is a transaction.

Pam Allan: Well, which is what she said straight out.

Corey Allan: Right, that's exactly what this is predominantly. I'm wondering if even the full on sex is still a transaction. I would love to know more from her on, does she reach levels of orgasm? Does she reach times where she gets to be given a hand-

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: ... and incorporate a element of foreplay to this? Or is it truly just, he's using this to cope. He's using this to sleep. He's using this for his anxiety releases. He's using this for identity and validity of himself. If that's the case, it stays transactional.

Pam Allan: Yeah. In that scenario, at what point does she ever find herself at the point of finding pleasure in this?

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Pam Allan: Who's going to want more of that?

Corey Allan: Right. Well, if you start looking at it as, "Okay, this can be something I can offer as a service. I can be an ally in this to help you," but if it becomes more transactional to where it's feeling diminishing to her, that's where she's got to have the courage to be able to say, "You know what? You have a hand too, you can take care of it."

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: "I may even lay beside you, but I'm out on participating in the way I have been," because at least it starts to put a line out there of, "I want something different than this. I don't want this just to be all around you," because that's what it sounds like it is. But that's a courageous move to disrupt things, because a lot of times, lower desire wives, that in my experience that are in this predicament find themselves stuck because they can only foresee, "If I say no and I stop, or I change what it is that I want in this, one, I have to examine, what do I really want out of this, because sometimes I don't know."

Pam Allan: That's hard to work, because then I do have to examine it.

Corey Allan: I got to figure that out, and two, "What will he do in the meantime, because the times I've rejected in the past, he's been mean, he's been spiteful, he's been cold? He's been vindictive. He's been pouty, whatever it could be." Well, okay. Then the undercurrent of that can be depending on your upbringing, if you don't help a man out, he'll go get it elsewhere, because men are canine and they have no self-control.

Pam Allan: That's a message some people send, that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to do it, but that's the message-

Corey Allan: Absolutely-

Pam Allan: ... people have in their heads.

Corey Allan: ... but that's part of what builds into our stuck-ness, right?

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: It's that whole, the worst case scenario is where my mind goes. So the courage it takes to actually speak up and say, "I don't like this dynamic. I don't like this being transactional. I can understand occasionally it is, but I want more than this, which might mean you need to learn some self control, dude. You might mean to realize, you know what? If you want better quality with me, maybe the quantity goes down a little bit." But then she also has to look at it as, "Do I want more than once a month?" Does she want to seek it for herself?

Pam Allan: Right

Corey Allan: What does she get out of it? Can she speak up about what she likes, and doesn't like? Can she seek it? That takes courage too.

Pam Allan: It does.

Corey Allan: Because you can look at it as, "I don't know what I want." Okay. That's fine, because there's a lot of people, men and women both, that when it comes to their sex life, they don't know what they want, but you do know what you don't want. You've already started then, because as you move down the path, you start speaking up about what you don't want, which helps starting to narrow in what it is you probably do.

Pam Allan: So first step to address that, because you don't want to go in, and I guess my gut reaction when you just said, "Is she telling him, 'You have to learn some self control?'"

Corey Allan: No-

Pam Allan: ... because that doesn't seem like a good-

Corey Allan: No, no. That's just a-

Pam Allan: ... thing to say.

Corey Allan: ... global statement on the dynamic-

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: ... on the system. If I was working with both of them, that would be something I would say, "So you have no self-control to be able to miss a night, and you're okay with just a hand job?" When what you're probably saying to her is, "But I really want to connect with you. I really want to ... "

Pam Allan: Right, but how's that connection happening-

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: ... if you know she's getting resentful-

Corey Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: ... about-

Pam Allan: Well, this is that classic conundrum of a higher desire husband, and oftentimes, much higher desire that claims and takes the stance of, "I want a wife that wants this too. I want her to be into it and engaged and fully alive sexually in our encounters.: But yet, whenever the idea of the act is brought up and introduced and then progresses towards whatever it culminates to be, oftentimes it's like, she just is doling out crumbs and he is gladly gobbling them up, where she doesn't offer up much because it's more part of the transaction of, "Just get off my back."

Pam Allan: It's like encouraging bad behavior, huh?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: So you're saying, "I want this," but you are ravenous about what's offered, which is basically making neither of you have to look at what are you really doing in it?

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: That's part of what I'm hearing in this, is what she's saying is, "I don't like this. It's gotten transactional. What's in this for me?" There's her open.

Pam Allan: Do something about it.

Corey Allan: Right, there's your open, "What's in this for me?"

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: When you can figure that out, you bring that to him and then you're going to upset some things. It's going to be uncomfortable for a little bit, but you see how they respond.

Pam Allan: Yeah. That's what opens the door to making it better.

Corey Allan: Mm-hmm.

Pam Allan: All right. The next question, my wife's bad at below jobs. I told her she's amazing at them years ago, and now she usually asks if I enjoy them in the moment, and I always say, 'Yes.' I'm in too deep, and I don't want to hurt her by telling her she's bad at them, but also don't want bad blow jobs anymore. Can you help a guy out here?"

Corey Allan: This is quite the conundrum.

Pam Allan: It is.

Corey Allan: So he's stuck between the choices of continuing to lie to his wife about her oral sex skills and receiving less than ideal blow jobs-

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: ... or being honest about her skillset and hurting her feelings.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Let me ask you this.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Is it possible in the way you're reading this, Pam, because she asks, I heard that.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: She'll ask, "How was it for you? Did you enjoy it?"

Pam Allan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Corey Allan: Is it possible? She is questioning he's enjoying it, maybe just she's aware?

Pam Allan: Well, I think so. She usually asks if I enjoy them in the moment, and I guess I would wonder if I'm giving a blow job on a regular basis, why do I need to keep asking? That would-

Corey Allan: Well, it's because you're insecure about your abilities, and-

Pam Allan: That would tell me by body language, right?

Corey Allan: Or you're not sure in answers you're getting, because body language and what his words are, are probably not congruent.

Pam Allan: Yeah, exactly. She can read between the legs.

Corey Allan: Oh, I see what you did there.

Pam Allan: Do you like that? She can read between the lines on what's going on here, and know that, "Mm, something's not right. He's not really into this."

Corey Allan: Right. Right, because there's an element of whenever somebody's insecure about something, it's felt. Whenever somebody's just tolerating something, it's felt. It's just a question of, do we have the courage enough to pay attention to that, and to be honest about that, and then also draw attention to that? Because yes, he's in deep in this scenario-

Pam Allan: He is.

Corey Allan: ... because he is gone for a while now, but my hunch is it's already more known than he's maybe letting on and she's letting on.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I think he got to come clean on this and say, "You know what? I've not wanted to hurt your feelings."

Corey Allan: The truth is always the best route.

Pam Allan: Yes.

Corey Allan: One of the things is not introducing the truth when she asks the question right in the middle of or after. That's poor timing.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: This is a state of the affair conversation, the state of the incident conversation that's after the fact, or at some point over lunch where it's just more civil and it's like, "You know what, honey? I don't know if you've been reading my body language, but I've been stuck on, I don't really know how to tell you this, but ... "

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Then you just ease your way into the truth.

Pam Allan: There's no good way to do it.

Corey Allan: Well, there is a good way to do it. Oh, you were going with the saying-

Pam Allan: No, you go.

Corey Allan: You were going with the saying-

Pam Allan: I'm just going generically, but it's going to hurt either way.

Corey Allan: It's going to hurt.

Pam Allan: Yes, there are better ways to do it than others, for sure.

Corey Allan: Yes. Absolutely. I was going with the oral sex skills.

Pam Allan: Oh, for Pete's sake.

Corey Allan: Come on, baby.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: But there's also this element of he's the one that's asking the question, so I'm going to flip the script for a second. How are his skills?

Pam Allan: Oh, how is his oral sex-

Corey Allan: In the interest of fair play, how often is he willing to put in the work to make sure he's good at what he's doing and becoming a student of her to read her body language situationally, and curl her toes, and make sure that you don't have to ask the question because her body's telling you, which is the same thing she's probably wanting to.

Pam Allan: Yeah. That's valid to ask. Yeah.

Corey Allan: In the interest of fair play, you better be learning the same for her.

Pam Allan: All right. All right. Next question, "I love him, but his body is not in good shape. He's lost over 200 pounds, which is amazing-

Corey Allan: That is amazing.

Pam Allan: Yeah, "but has a ton of loose skin and still a pretty large stomach, which can make intimacy tough and sometimes gross. I love him for who he is and how he treats me, but I do struggle with how his belly and extra skin affect our sex life. I don't want to say anything that could hurt him, but I'm not sure how to handle it."

Corey Allan: Okay. Again, we're having a thread here in some of our questions with this series that, "How do I say something that's hurtful without them hurting?"

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: You can't, we don't give both.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: If you know well enough of what you want to present, it's going to sting a bit.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: But there's a difference in taking the stance of, "I'm using this and I'm weaponizing it and I'm actually being cruel with it," or, "I'm aware enough, and I'm sensitive enough to know this is going to sting a bit, but I have the courage to still say it," because he's aware of this issue with himself. If he's already lost 200 pounds, he already knows. He could be incredibly proud of the journey he's been on and maybe he's got more he still wants to go, hence the loose skin, because if he's reached the level he wants to go, one of the steps is you go see a plastic surgeon and talk about the options of dealing with loose skin.

Corey Allan: There's all kinds of medical procedures, now that have come on an incredibly long way in dealing with this. But it's recognizing there's this dilemma of how he sees himself, how she sees him and those aren't jiving. Well, some of that, what can really change on what you say? "The loose skin really is bothering me." Well, what can really change? Is that something that can absolutely change, or is it one that, "No, I can't do anything about it?"

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: So now we both have to orient differently accordingly.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: It's like if I was to look at you and say, "Hey baby, you were just too short, and it's a real turnoff," and I'm going to totally exaggerate it. There's-

Pam Allan: Sure, and there's nothing I can do about the hype.

Corey Allan: Right. It's like, "You want me to wear stilts or something?" But it's like, "No, because I know you're not ... " It's just that element of, "I've got to recognize that's who you are."

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: That's a component of this whole story. So yes, there's things that get in the way that have been turn-offs to her, but what are the things that are turn-ons; maybe not sexually, but turn-ons about him? His stick-to-itiveness, his discipline to lose 200 pounds, his presence, his-

Pam Allan: There might be sexual things too, though.

Corey Allan: Absolutely, there could be.

Pam Allan: That's where you're dealing with positions that maybe affect-

Corey Allan: And situations-

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because if you are particularly turned off by a part of the body of your spouse, well then don't put yourself in positions when you can to where that part takes center stage. If the belly is that repulsive or annoying or frustrating, or a turn-off to you, try different positions. Go rear entry. You're not even looking that way at him.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: Right. "Well, but that loses ... " Well, maybe it does, but it also allows you to still connect and engage, because we don't always get this culminating fantastic thing. That's the one thing that people, I wish, was taught better. What'd you have?

Pam Allan: Well, we don't always get this culminating fantastic thing. You can still be fantastic in that regard.

Corey Allan: Well, no I mean every single time-

Pam Allan: Okay, gotcha.

Corey Allan: I don't mean just with this couple.

Pam Allan: Gotcha.

Corey Allan: I mean every single encounter I have with my lover isn't always fantastic fireworks.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: So it's recognizing there's still a utility to this, but one of the things that I think needs to be taught better, and maybe we can do this here just at least with the nation, is the idea that there are aspects of our development as human beings when it comes to our sexual natures, they can just be gross. They can just be messy, if you look at it at face value, but if you add an element of who the person is, and you add a depth, and you add an intimate bond and a history together, it changes it, because if some of these things happen on first dates, we're all gone, right?

Pam Allan: yeah.

Corey Allan: Because think about it, think about all the different instances of, you got foreplay going on and all of a sudden there's "Whoa, what is that?"

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Right?

Pam Allan: What just happened here?

Corey Allan: Yeah. "I can't find parts of you. Hold on." Okay. There's just all kinds of different things that can come up [inaudible 00:22:22] that are just like, "Whoa. Oh," but if you've got a history with each other, it means entirely different. So I don't think there anything necessarily wrong with navigating this by being able to say, "You know what, honey? I love you, but intimacy sometimes still is tough," because I'm going to be willing to bet he knows that already, because if he's paying attention. If he's not, then you need to know that you're with a guy that's not paying attention either.

Pam Allan: Well, there's that.

Corey Allan: Look at it as a way of, "This isn't about how do I not hurt each other, this is about I make it worth it with what I say, because it's moving the things forward for both of us, hopefully."

Pam Allan: "My wife has never orgasmed and we've been married for three-and-a-half years. She enjoys herself, but has never orgasmed. I want her to be able to experience it, but I also know it's not helpful to try to force it. What do I do?"

Corey Allan: Well, he is right that it's not helpful to try to force it, because that just adds more pressure. A lot of times orgasms, for most human beings, aren't increased and enhanced by pressure. Pressure to perform often isn't a good recipe.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: It's interesting the way he words this question, because this happens a lot. Tell me if you agree with this.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: That, "I want to give my partner something more they want for themselves," is basically what he's asking.

Pam Allan: That's what it sounds like. Maybe she wants it too and just doesn't know how to get there.

Corey Allan: Absolutely, and that's a whole different answer, because she can go find that. There's good information. There's even courses out there online you can find. We've got past guests that have talked about this in the archives.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Some of it may be maybe just neither of them knows the actual parts.

Corey Allan: Well, and that could be, so one of the things would be, you got to make sure the clitoris is involved.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Right, and that typically is addressed best digitally or orally. Penal vaginal intercourse does not allow for a lot of clitoral stimulation unless she has her fingers involved, or you have your fingers involved-

Pam Allan: Yeah. If you need some lube-

Corey Allan: Or a toy is involved.

Pam Allan: ... or need some lube, get some lube to help with that.

Corey Allan: Because as Lori Mince has said, "Clitorises and vibrations go very well together."

Pam Allan: Yes, they do.

Corey Allan: So recognizing that a lot of women can struggle with this, you're three-and- a-half years in with her. A lot of women need to get on board with recognizing a lot of this begins in the mind. It's, "Where's my mind in this, because I can add a whole lot of pressure to myself because I'm having struggle reaching whatever it could be." She also can enjoy this and discover this solo, if that's something she really wants to do. There's a lot of women throughout the history of SMR that we've been aware of that they have launched this path solo, and then they incorporate their husband at a later date, because they're just trying to figure themselves out, which that's a benefit for everybody, just to understand yourself better.

Corey Allan: Just figure out what it feels like, what you enjoy, what you don't enjoy, so it is just recognizing that this is a process. Whether she gets there quickly or not, whether you get there quickly or not, are you together along the way on the journey? Are you expressing what it is that you want and hope for her, but also being okay with what she wants for herself? Because if she doesn't want it, then you're forcing it for yourself more than you are for her, and that's what we often can do.

Pam Allan: That just might create a bigger divide and a bigger wall for her.

Corey Allan: Right. Well, that's what fuels our, "I want you to want this like I do," because that gets in that scenario of the higher desire is always befuddled on how much they enjoy sex, and then when they have sex with their lower desire spouse, "They enjoy it too, so why would they not want more of it like I do, because I enjoy it?"

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Right? It's just, well, because it just doesn't mean the same thing to them, and so you have to come to grips with who they are, not who you wish they were.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: So when you can do that, you have the chance to learn both compassion and support for yourself and each other.

Pam Allan: "My partner and I are saving ourselves for marriage, but I've heard from friends that I should try it out before marriage, just in case he has a micro penis and I'll be in the losing end. What if that's true? "

Corey Allan: Okay. So this is the, "Tell me your sources of where your information's coming from." We say this to our kids a lot. "Hey, I heard such and such and such joke." Okay.

Pam Allan: Who told you that?

Corey Allan: Trust the source or no? Which is it, right?

Pam Allan: Right. So when you're talking about friends that are encouraging this, most often, friends are projecting their fears, their insecurities, their experiences onto other people, because that's something, "Oh, I couldn't even imagine," when that's not their predicament at all. We can couch it under the guise of, "I really do care for you, and I'm looking out for you," but most of it is self-serving. That's what it's motivated from. So being able to see it as, "Hey, should I try it out beforehand or not?" because this has been a question on the Christians Who Curse Sometimes platform before.

Pam Allan: Yeah, a number of times.

Corey Allan: Should we have premarital sex or not, before the wedding day? That's one of those things that here at SMR, we try not to be a moral compass for people. We try to help people ask better questions. We don't want to say, "This is what you, thou shalts," but instead, I think it's better that you ask yourself the question of, "What does your thoughts and gut tell you? What does your relationship with God tell you? What does your relationship with each other tell you? What's your integrity tell you?" If you're asking the question, trying to convince yourself of something, you probably already know the real answer. As-

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: As for the fear of, "What if I have a micro penis?" My hunch is there are things you can be doing while you are dating each other that get a general idea of what's going on in his pants. I'm not saying go feeling around, but if you sit in this lap and you make out a little while, you'll probably get an idea of "Whoa, there's something in the way down there."

Pam Allan: Enough said.

Corey Allan: Enough said.

Pam Allan: All right. "I've been married for seven weeks and sex sucks. How do my hubby and I get better at it? I don't like it very much, and it hurts our sex life." Well, yes. If sex sucks, it would hurt your sex life.

Corey Allan: Yes, it does. First, I think there needs to be an understanding for anybody that's in the nation, that's in the newlywed category or the soon-to-be wed category that most of the time lots of couples face troubles like this early on, because we have such unrealistic, lofty expectations of what sex will be. When we really get a chance to start doing it and to start figuring it out, one, we figure out, we don't really know what we're doing possibly-

Pam Allan: And we don't know what we don't know.

Corey Allan: And we're anxious as can be about it.

Pam Allan: That's probably the biggest thing, right?

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Pam Allan: A little ignorance and a lot of anxiety.

Corey Allan: Right, because I think we all believe it'll be nirvana every single time. When in reality, it is sort of transactional at times. It is just figuring stuff out at times. It is just laboratory work at times, if you look back at it. It's hard to think of that in the moment of it, because it is wrapped in euphoria and love and longing and lust, and all of the stuff that we usually have under the newlywed stage. But if you look back on it, all of us that have been married a while, look back on your events and realize, "Yeah, that was lab work. We should have had lab coats and maybe even goggles."

Pam Allan: Goggles would've been useful.

Corey Allan: Then secondly, is this needs to be dealt with directly with her husband.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Then you need to speak up and just say, "Hey, this is a problem for me," because what you really need to know, is it a problem for him? Because if it's not, that lets you know who you're dealing with.

Pam Allan: Good point.

Corey Allan: Right? Because then he doesn't care about the fact that you're not having fun, or that you're uncomfortable or that you don't like it. I say the same kind of thread when talking with women about dealing with painful sex that you got to speak up about that, because you need to know if your husband is compassionate enough and cares about that or not. Because if he doesn't, that's a drastically different path you need to go down.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: If he does, now you got an ally. Well, you got a chance to have an ally in this by being able to say, "Hey, we could maybe do some dramatic renovating of this whole thing, and figure it out. We could listen to some podcasts. We could read some books. We could talk to some friends, gasp about what it is, what was their journey like. You don't have to get pointers necessarily, but maybe you get a couple of things to realize we're all similar n this journey.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I would say, "You're not too far off. It's not like you're the only people that had some bad experiences with sex early on in marriage."

Corey Allan: Then lastly is, if you discover you're at an impasse still because you both agree on something, and yet you don't quite know what to do next, hook up with a good sex therapist, find a good sex coach. Find somebody that does work in this field-

Pam Allan: Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: ... and work alongside them, because that's what they're there for. They're allies and advocates for you in this aspect of your life. So reach out, find somebody and have them walk alongside with you. It's money totally well spent-

Pam Allan: Absolutely.

Corey Allan: ... as an investment in your marriage.

Pam Allan: That would be coreypassionatelymarried.net.

Corey Allan: Exactly.

Pam Allan: All right. Next question. "I found out after four years of marriage, my husband was watching porn on a regular basis. Since it's come out, he has repented and says it's been months now since he's watched. But now every time we are intimate, I can't help but think he's picturing other women. I feel like our sex isn't healthy anymore, because I feel like everything is just taken from porn. How can we overcome this?"

Corey Allan: Okay, miss. Okay. There's two different threads to this, Pam, and I'm really interested for your chiming in on this too, because this has been our journey from the past as well. One of the struggles that everybody faces when you're dealing with betrayals, because that's what this is, it's a betrayal. The way she's framing this is exactly what the title of it, is understanding there's a different path between trust and dealing with the hurt, right? We even have an episode back in the archives, Trust and Hurt. Those are two different things. We heal them differently and you have to allow room for the hurt that has nothing to do with rebuilding trust, because it sounds like, in some ways, she feels like she's done that. He says he's repented with the trust aspect.

Pam Allan: Gotcha.

Corey Allan: The trust, I'm not as concerned about that maybe as I once was-

Pam Allan: Maybe.

Corey Allan: ... But I have though, is the residual that's hanging back there. This is that idea of, "I can't help but think he's picturing other women, and it's not healthy because everything is just taken from porn." Well that's a globalized statement. Everything?

Pam Allan: Well, it's her perception now.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Right, because she's new to this information-

Corey Allan: True, so she's-

Pam Allan: ... so that's her filter of what she thinks he's thinking, what she thinks he's doing with his mind during sex, it's assumptions. Maybe it's real, maybe it's not, but for her, perception is reality and that's where it is.

Corey Allan: No, agreed. That's worth spending a little bit of time on for a second, is this idea of, "How do I know my partner's with me?"

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Well, you don't, at end of the day. But if you're paying attention, you do.

Pam Allan: You can see the signs, you can feel it.

Corey Allan: Right. Then, the question becomes when you get a read they've disconnected, or you are disconnected because you're trying to read if they're connected, this is where it gets really weird, do you bring that up? Because it's likely he could pick up on that too, that you just disconnected, because you're reading me. Now you guys are both on a path that's not towards connecting, so oftentimes the best thing we can do is stop things for a moment and just say, "Hey, I'm sorry. I got caught up in wondering if you were with me," and he can confirm it or he could say, "Yeah, I got disconnected there. I didn't go to porn, but I did lose the vibe with you for a moment." Now you have a chance to reestablish because you both took the risk of owning where you were in those moments. That's what creates fantastic sexual encounters.

Pam Allan: It does.

Corey Allan: It sounds like it's very disruptive, because again, we have these lofty expectations from the question before that it'll all be seamless and flowing.

Pam Allan: Well, and if he doesn't react well to you saying that, it could kill it in that moment.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: But at least you've broached the topic.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Now you've shown that, "I'm not going to go through with this, if my mind's not in the right spot.

Corey Allan: Right, and I want something that's actually both of us present going forward.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Let's be stronger. Let's be better.

Corey Allan: I'm going to have the courage to speak up when I lose disconnect, or I lose connection and I'm going to have courage to speak up when I feel like you have, because if we're both paying attention, we realize there's a lot going on, because every sexual encounter has periods of disconnect and connect, disconnect and connect. Our daily rituals have periods of disconnect and connect.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: If you don't believe me, did you drive home from work one day and you had no clue how you got there?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Like, "I hope I didn't hit anybody."

Pam Allan: Yeah. "I don't remember the last two miles." [inaudible 00:36:50]

Corey Allan: I don't remember it at all, because that's a common occurrence.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: So it's just recognizing, this is about how we grow and evolve as humans in real time in the sex act with each other, while at the same time, she gets a chance to confront what it is she's been trying to catch up to now, which is his betrayal, his choice, and she's the collateral damage of that. But to her statement, if I feel like everything is from porn now, that's a globalization, because there's still sex going on. What changes in this whole thing though, is it's sex with you.

Corey Allan: So be you and be present and be someone that's engaged in inviting, and when you're not, be honest about that and say, "Hey, I'm not there yet, but I want to try to get there." That's a courageous way, because it doesn't matter what our history has been, what we say to our spouse, when I'm handling myself better, to just be fully engaged in those things is, "There is no better choice you can make than what you're doing right now, honey. The more I can live like that, man, that's limitless on where we can go together."

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: Hi I'm just calling in to reference episode 571. I can really relate to a lot of what the caller had to say when he called in. So much of what he said paralleled my marriage. I also struggled with pain, with a lack of desire, pain from the wedding night on, and also just some experienced a lot of the same things. My husband even struggled with porn for a while, I think, due to the differences in desires for both of us, so I can really relate to a lot. One thing that I wanted to mention, especially for him is to be aware that she might be heavily aware of that as well, the way he's feeling, and might feel like, like I did, "There's something wrong with me. I don't have the same desires as my husband. What's wrong with me that I don't want sex more?"

Speaker 3: I know for me, I cried a lot. I prayed a lot. I tried to read books and I just really struggled that I didn't feel about sex the way my husband did, thinking almost that he was the normal one because he had such a strong desire, and that there was something wrong with me. It took me a long time to figure out, "Okay, well what are my desires? What do I want?" and to also find that my sexual drive is just lower than his, but that there's nothing wrong with that. Now, that I've been able to embrace that, "Okay, I have a slower drive. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me," that has helped me to move forward. Since there was pornography, I know I struggled not to compare myself with porn stars. I could never be like that.

Speaker 3: They seem so into it and so excited about everything, so that, of course, makes it difficult to not compare yourself to that and think that's what your husband wants, and I'm not that. As far as pain, I wanted to just give some tips of what I've learned. I've actually learned some breathing techniques, because you can actually trick your brain by breathing slow, deep breaths into a feeling of relaxation that your body relaxes. I would just suggest, let her be in control. Let her be on top, and take all pressure off that there has to be orgasm, that it has to finish, it has to be anything exciting that she can quit whenever she wants. Let her be in control. Let her just slowly ease on, take some deep breaths if she needs to. Don't put any pressure on her. That could really help her. You could even just start with cuddling, affection, laying there naked together. That has helped me. Thank you so much for all you guys do. I really love the show and a constant listener, so thank you. Bye.

Corey Allan: I love that the nation helps out the nation.

Pam Allan: Yeah, that was some good information she gave. I appreciate that so much.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. If you want to join in the conversations that we have going on and you want to help out each other, your voice is welcome, please, 214-702-9565. Well, this has been fun, Pam.

Pam Allan: It has.

Corey Allan: Kind of a different model of, just let's go through some of the questions that are just out there, and maybe aren't really familiar with SMR, but they're familiar enough with via Instagram that we get a different flavor of questions at times, because what we want to do is help everybody just live more vibrantly and alive and be passionately married, because it's such a good avenue for our own development and our growth, and the world is just better when we're all better as people and as married couples.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone, let us know, 214-702-9565, or feedback@sexymarriageradio.com.