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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

Role Playing #581

On the Regular version of today’s show …

I’m joined today Jon and Katie Runyan, of Faithful Fling, and we dive into the world of role playing.

How can it spice things up? How can a couple explore this aspect of fantasy and sex while still keeping it within the couple?

Learn more about Faithful Fling here –

On the Xtended version …

Jon and Katie and I continue the conversation by turning it a bit more personal – as well as exploring some of the pitfalls that may be associated with fantasy and role playing.

Enjoy the show!

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Got a question?

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio,

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where each and every week, we have a straightforward, honest conversation to help you frame your conversations that take place in your marriage around the ideas of intimacy and sex and novelty and love and spice, problems, tensions, good, bad, ugly.

Pam Allan: Keep rolling, I'm just sitting here silent letting you just-

Corey Allan: Yes, you are. It's like I'm running a solo show today. Well inaudible my wife, Pam. We love the fact that we get the opportunity to speak to the nation each and every week and we also love the opportunity that the nation takes to spend time with us and talk with us, and the way they can do that is call us at 214-702-9565, or is the inbox we've got that's been around for over 10 years for all the life of Sexy Marriage Radio that's been on the podcast airwaves. So if we've left something undone or a question you've got from a prior show, we want your feedback.

Pam Allan: Yeah, let us know.

Corey Allan: Or if there's a topic or a question you've got going on, you want us to answer, let us know and we will cover it because this is listener driven radio is the way we think about this. And we also ask the nation to help spread the word and they can do that by jumping on iTunes, Spotify, which if you're not quite sure how to do this, there's actually a page now, We'll walk you through how to create a review on iTunes or Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Pam Allan: Very good.

Corey Allan: So step by step. And we'll come up with more as needed. Send us an email if there's something that you can't figure out, we want to help you, because we want you to help us spread the word because married sex is the hotbed for sex and we want every married couple out there in the world to know that and enjoy that. Well coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, it's a conversation I had with Jon and Katie Runyan.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: They are the founders of Faithful Fling.

Pam Allan: That's an interesting name. What is that about?

Corey Allan: So when you hear the words, since it's two words, role play, role play, what comes to your mind, Pamela?

Pam Allan: Just having some fun, little caveat that you and I may participate in to just spice up maybe an encounter together.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Pam Allan: Right? We create a caveat.

Corey Allan: So they have a company called Faithful Fling and what they do is try to help couples play roles in their marriage and add some fantasy and enhancement to their marriage to keep it all within the confines of the marriage, hence the word faithful. They're keeping it all under the same monogamous relationship.

Pam Allan: Okay. So trying to do something fun and creative and add a little adventure.

Corey Allan: So in the regular version today, we're having a conversation about how this unfolds and what it looked like, how it happened. And then on the extended version today, which is deeper, longer and there are no ads, you can subscribe at We go into it a little bit deeper, look at the personal side of it for them, as well as what are the elements where this can become a slippery slope?

Pam Allan: Personal side, how it got started?

Corey Allan: Their journey and their experience and what they've heard from people too, because obviously like we do with the nation here, we get insight and we're privy to a lot of what goes on in people's lives.

Pam Allan: Yeah, sure.

Corey Allan: Because it's humbling that we get invited in a lot. Well they get the same thing at times. And so we wanted to talk about just what that's been like and what they hear when people really do branch out into this. But then we also talk about what about the idea of fantasy? Because the one key point that comes across is fantasy can be good for connecting or disconnecting.

Pam Allan: Sure, sure.

Corey Allan: And we need to be mindful of how that goes. And so that's what we talk about.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And there's taboo things that go on with couples given history, past meanings, all those things. Yeah.

Corey Allan: So all that's coming up on today's show. Joining me today, we're going to dive into a topic that, I don't know, Jon and Katie, how would you guys describe this? This is one that a lot of times people might hear the whole concept of role play and just get cringy, unsure, uncertain, maybe even little scared. But Jon and Katie Runyan, you guys have created an avenue to help couples start to explore this idea in their marriage. And I am fascinated by it and really looking forward to this conversation. So glad you guys could join me today on Sexy Marriage Radio.

Jon Ruyan: Corey, thanks for having us. We appreciate it.

Katie Runyan: Yeah, we're really excited. Thank you so much.

Corey Allan: And so Faithful Fling, let's get ahead of this right off the bat.

Katie Runyan: Yes.

Corey Allan: Because when people hear the word role play when it comes to our sex lives, I'm going to throw it to you guys, what reaction do you guys get first and foremost?

Katie Runyan: Well usually, people are pretty excited. They're curious. And we wanted to name our company something that would alleviate any stress really. So we named it Faithful Fling and we named it faithful because it's only between you and your spouse. That is it. It's just between you. And then we wanted to have a fun, flirty word for these role play dates that we would create for you. So we came up with the word fling. So Faithful Fling. So basically, these role play scenarios or dates are going to be just between you and your spouse and we offer them about once a month, and you just get to go experience something in a new persona and a different character. And it's been really great.
We've had a lot of wonderful feedback and it's just been an easy way to maybe transition into the idea of role playing because you don't have to quite come up with your own ideas, we provide you with a fantastic script and it allows you to improvise and create it to your own desires as well. So we just help you and just give you a nice platform and we trust that you and your spouse have great communication skills and can make it the best for you too.

Jon Ruyan: Yeah. So one of the things that we like to say is that we do all the work and they have all the fun, right? So that's-

Corey Allan: That's a good relationship right there when it comes to this kind of concept.

Jon Ruyan: It is because it can be all the things that you were mentioning in terms of it can be scary or not sure about it, all those things, we try and take that side out of it and provide that piece of the puzzle, so to speak, so that if someone is uncomfortable with it or they feel it's awkward, they can basically put that back on us. They can say in their head, "I'm just going with the fling here."

Corey Allan: It's not me. It's not me.

Katie Runyan: inaudible.

Jon Ruyan: So I think that really helps people a lot versus if they were to try and do it themselves, well then I can see where that awkwardness still is there. So that's a good part I think.

Corey Allan: One of the biggest things I keep coming across is similar to you guys in the sense that when we're talking about really adding a little novelty or variety to our sex lives, and even to our lives, there are many of us that I don't even know where to begin. I don't even know what that would be because even to venture out beyond the norm and the status quo is scary as can be. I can't even think outside the box. And so when I add that to my sex life, man, that's one of those that's really difficult because then it seems like that's just a slippery slope. That's going to lead to this and it's going to lead to this because we overreact to things that we don't understand or we're a little scared about, right, as people.
So you guys have done a fabulous job from what I've seen of, "Let me give you some framework, but also let's keep it in the context of you and your spouse. Let's keep it in the context of an agreement of a covenant of the sacredness that you've created and let's explore a little bit." And I also love, Jon, how you were talking about you guys are trying to position yourself that we can be the bad guys even if it goes horribly. I've thought of that too. I tell people that all the time as a joke when I'm speaking, if you try something out and your spouse is like, "Where did you learn that? Or where did you hear about that?" I'm like, "Just say Sexy Marriage Radio." That's fine, I'll take the hit for it.

Katie Runyan: If you were interested in role playing within your marriage and you wanted to approach your spouse about it, I think a great way could be like, "Hey, babe, I love our sex life. And I've been thinking about role playing, would you like to learn more about it with me?"

Corey Allan: Okay.

Katie Runyan: And then make sure that your timing is right, right? You always want to think if you're going to be talking about this, maybe if they're hungry or tired, might not be the best time.

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: And then just make sure your tone is good. And then also describe what that looks like for you. So, "Hey, babe, I really love our sex life. But I've been thinking about role playing. It sounds really fun to me. I love the idea of dressing up for you. Would you like to learn more about it with me?" So you're going ahead and saying you like it and then you're allowing them to have that. Maybe listen to this podcast or check out a website or let's just pretend to go on a date together and different personas. You can ease yourself in that or just go for it. Just sign up for a-

Corey Allan: Tell me if I'm wrong on this, Katie, since you're the one leading this charge right now, wouldn't you say a lot of us, whenever we get ourselves dressed up, we get ourselves sexified even, if you will. It's nothing extravagant. It's nothing that I'm putting on a new persona. I'm just putting on my best. Isn't that a little bit of what you guys are even describing?

Katie Runyan: Absolutely. I do think when you said you put on your best, you do have a little bit more confidence. You feel like you can perform at your highest level. And what does that mean? I don't mean that just in a sexual sense, I just mean you're there for your top game. If you dressed up for an interview, you usually are on more. So the same way within a role play is that you can just... I think having that internal confidence really can carry over into that for sure.

Corey Allan: And that's one of those things that what jumps out to me is that we did a show a couple weeks, months back on BDSM, where I had guests come join us and we started talking about that and I love it. One of the feedbacks I got on that show is I think you might be going where a no Christian podcast has ever gone before with that episode. But what struck me with it was realizing that we all have variations of what you guys are describing. We just don't think of it that way, right? I'm carrying myself a different way is a little bit of a role play. I'm acting a part that's a different version of me, a different aspect of me, a more confident me. That's what you guys are describing and how you've set this up, you just help people explore even further.

Katie Runyan: It's just a way to go even further like you said. I think that we all maybe have little scripts that we go by. If you lock the door, you know that's maybe what's going to happen if you-

Corey Allan: It's a signal. Yeah.

Katie Runyan: Yeah, you have these signals. We're just really going beyond that. But dressing up is part of preparing for a role play scenario. It can really help your mind because your mind is your biggest sex organ we think.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Katie Runyan: That it really helps you prepare to be in that new script. I mean you're putting a lot of time, energy and effort into these role play dates or scenarios. So it's really good for great communication. But again, back to preparing your best self and that confidence, that's just going to make a role play better because you get better the more you practice. It's less awkward. I mean we give you a lot of tips on the website that can help you get into character. And remember, you're on the same team. If Jon and I were going to have a role play scenario, we're not trying to stump each other. If I say I'm from Houston, Texas, he's not going to be like, "Well what route do you take to work every day?" He's just going to be like, "Wow, that's really hot."

Corey Allan: But that's so sexy, isn't it? I mean what route do you take to work every day?

Katie Runyan: Right, probably not going to come up. But I'm just saying that we're together, we want this to succeed. We've had a lot of fun with it. And we were just like we have got to give other people a chance for this because we have a high level of intimacy. We have great communication skills. We know how to be vulnerable together. And when we brought this playfulness into our sex life and just this new novelty, it was super hot. Combining those two together was really fun for us.

Corey Allan: That's good.

Jon Ruyan: It was good. So I would say so the role play, it's one part acting, one part fantasy and with a dose of extra freedom because you do, you end up with this extra freedom when you're in character together because you can try new things and you can leave your own bias and your own viewpoints a little bit in the background so that you can just explore and have fun together, but not have it be so serious. We always say you should never take yourself too seriously, right? And in role play-

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Jon Ruyan: In role play, that's exponentially true, right? So like she said, we have come across so many times where we're working on a scenario or we're doing something and things get in the way or kids or this or whatever. And you just roll with the punches and you learn and like Katie said, you get better at it and you become more adept at how to handle those situations. But the reality of this, it's just fun. It is a lot of fun between you and your spouse to experience new situations and things that you would never otherwise encounter.

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Katie Runyan: It's really great because another way Faithful Fling is fantastic is it allows sometimes the dynamic of a relationship is one spouse is always the pursuer and then the other one very rarely. So this is really great because we allow, certain scenarios or we call them flings, one spouse is more the pursuer than the other and that can be really fulfilling for actually both people. And that's really great. We start each fling off with a story a little bit so you can get a good idea of how your night could look. You have your own password and your spouse has their own password because we truly believe that your roles should be separate. It's like a really big part of Faithful Fling because it also allows you, if you don't love something, you don't have to do it. And then your spouse doesn't even have that expectation.

Corey Allan: Exactly.

Katie Runyan: We even put in there what your spouse... Inside the fling, we write what your spouse knows. And then we have an entire other section that says, "Surprises for your spouse." So it is really good. Sometimes the nature of a fling, you may have more surprises than your spouse.

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: But it's back and forth. It's really fun. It's really sexy. We give you quite a bit of character development, but we leave it so much that you can still improvise on your own. We did not want you just to be like all right, we get this role play, we have a few awkward one liners and then you just have sex. No, we want so much more for you than that.

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: We want the flirting beforehand. We give you dialogue suggestions. We give you locations on if you want to take that fling inside your house or take it out on town, we give you definitely ideas about that. We give you supply lists, costume ideas.

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: And then a spice it up section that sometimes maybe you wanted to spice it up, but you just don't even know how. So we give you great suggestions, but we do not use explicit images or language.

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: But we do have suggestions.

Corey Allan: Right. Yeah. And that's what's so great because you guys are describing this idea of it's more than just the act of having sex with each other, it's the whole buildup. It's the whole process. It's the whole evening. And it could even go further than that if you want it because I mean think about it too, what came to my mind listening to you guys describe this is the people we are on vacation versus who we are in our everyday life, that's a little bit of a role play.

Katie Runyan: You're right.

Corey Allan: crosstalk. That's what they say, but it is that element of just realizing there's this dynamic of we can all benefit from seeing ourselves as other than what we have seen each other as. We'll be back with more of our conversation with Katie and Jon right after this. The Sexy Marriage Radio Academy is a private community of people perfecting the art of a passionate marriage. It's your opportunity to fully experience the fact that the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Not only that, you get to discover that being in a community makes a better life as well. The academy is a private space for listeners and readers of Sexy Marriage Radio, a place to connect with others about life, relationships and marriage. You'll find people that come together to meet, support one another and get answers to burning questions. Learn from experts, participate in growth challenges and more. Marriage can be hard, don't go at it alone. You pick the level of access, go to to join today.

Katie Runyan: Well our first role play scenario was when our children were only ages one, three, and five. And Jon and I were not in the best place for our marriage I would say. I really became mommy mode, that was everything for me. And Jon got my leftovers. And then Jon, he definitely was working on his career and we did not prioritize each other as much. So that first time that we decided to have a role play scenario together was he just made a flippant comment like, "Hey, how come you never dress up for me?" And I was inside like, "Well why don't you do this, this and this?" But I didn't say anything for one so it was pretty good. And I thought about it, I got curious. Do you want to? Does this idea sound fine to you? Tell me. And then I just surprised Jon.
So I went out and I got this little cute plaid school girl skirt and I put a lot of time, energy and effort into creating this fun night for him that he had no idea about. So I'm not suggesting you do that, but I'm just giving you an example of what we did because it was a catalyst to helping our marriage get better. So I put those kids to bed and I put that cute skirt on, I matched it with some knee high boots and this cute little shirt, I changed up my hair, I put a different perfume scent on. And I met Jon, he came home late from a soccer game, and I met him at the front door and I was like, "Professor Jones, I've been waiting on you." And his face was like, "Oh my goodness, is this real? This is so great," because he was super shocked-

Corey Allan: Who is this lady?

Katie Runyan: Yeah. And, "Oh, this might be that fun girl that I married," because I was so into being a mom, right? So it helped me put mommy mode on the back burner and just developed this. And what it did was it was a catalyst to us recognizing that we needed to prioritize one another. It's time, energy, effort, all of those things, better communication. And it was fun. And I do have to tell you though, when I said, "Professor Jones, I've been waiting on you," he was really seamless. He was like, "I'm sorry I kept you waiting."

Corey Allan: Well done, Jon.

Katie Runyan: Well done. Yeah, it was fun. And I think that you were-

Jon Ruyan: Oh, it was fantastic. So for me, it signaled to me that she was very much committed to working on a relationship and spending intimate time together and focusing on each other. And to be honest with you, I couldn't get it out of my head I mean for months. Every time I came home, I was like, "Who have we got?"

Corey Allan: Who do I meet at home tonight?

Jon Ruyan: It was very exciting. And that carries over, at least in our case, it carried over into our everyday life because I probably found myself being a little bit nicer, being a little bit more patient, being more excited to come home or those types of things. So it was a game changer for us. But that was our first experience-

Katie Runyan: Right.

Jon Ruyan: In role play. And then we've taken it from there.

Corey Allan: No, and that's so great because I think one of the things that happens across the board with every marriage that has any length of time to it is it is so easy for us to create routine lives and routine sex lives and scripts because it's what works. It gets the job done, it carries us forward. And it's also what helps us feel comfortable. I mean that's what's so wild, most people I think don't recognize that even the people we sit there and can look at that we deem as, "Good, gracious, they are huge adventurers, they're always traveling to these great places." But that's a normal routine for them. It can become boring when they're creating that's just the way I normally live. And one of the things that is important I think from what you guys are tapping into is the reality of how do I find ways to break out of that in my own self and in my own psyche and as well as in my relationship, because that's the beauty of this design, right?
Of you give each side information to act upon, but they can also make it their own because when you were talking earlier, Katie, about... And I love the idea, the simplicity of your partner doesn't know what your role is completely, so that way you've got some freedom and you also don't have the possibility because I can see it easily. Every one of us has a spouse that would be, "Wait, you didn't follow the script here, right. No, you deviated here. Even if what you offered as a deviation was better, you didn't follow it," and we all have that in our relationships to a degree.

Jon Ruyan: Yeah. No, Katie does a great job inside the flings of defining those things where she says, "Here are the things that your spouse basically is going to expect in terms of who's making the first communication? How is it going to start?" Those types of things where there are certain things that you do need to do as part of your role.

Corey Allan: Right.

Jon Ruyan: And then she's very clear about, "Here are the things that your spouse has no idea about. So you can do them or not do them."

Corey Allan: Right, make them your own.

Jon Ruyan: Right. Make it your own, but here are all these things. And if you decide not to do them or if you decide to add something else in there, your spouse doesn't have any idea whether that's part of the fling or whether you missed something or didn't miss something based on your own comfort level or own curiosity. So she does a really good job. So our favorite part of this business actually is the feedback that we get.

Katie Runyan: Yeah.

Jon Ruyan: So when Katie's phone goes off with a new order or fling feedback, it's always really exciting because it always comes back really good.

Katie Runyan: Yeah, they always like it. I'm like, "Oh."

Jon Ruyan: She's always worried like, "I don't know if they're going to like this one." And then the fling feedback will come back and we'd love for our customers to give us feedback and they tell us how much they enjoyed it or something that they did differently, or-

Katie Runyan: They would've never thought of on their own.

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: Those types of things. Or like, "I had always wanted to do this and-"

Jon Ruyan: They gave me the excuse.

Katie Runyan: And they gave me the excuse to do it. And I mean it's usually pretty simple, but it's really fun. But we are bringing in a little bit of intrigue and mystery as well in here because you never quite know what the other person is going to do. And it should just be an element of fun for you. I hope that it is really engaging and you can't wait for the next fling to see what could happen because we have another little tagline of who will you be tonight?

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: Because you never know. That's the great thing, we provide you with the character and the name. We do have a change name option, I want to mention that. So within our fling descriptions, if you didn't love the fling name or maybe it's a family member or something like that.

Jon Ruyan: Ex-girlfriend, ex-boyfriend.

Corey Allan: Right, a little too close to home. Yes.

Katie Runyan: Yeah. So we have that change name option and that can really help you. And we've noticed that some people just use their own names too.

Corey Allan: Sure.

Katie Runyan: If you don't really feel comfortable pretending to be Indie, then I'm just going to pretend I'm Katie and that can just bring a little bit level of comfort for some people. But it is just a great way, like you mentioned earlier, of getting out of your routine and trying something a little bit different because when you're on a vacation, typically you've brought your nicest clothes, right? And you want to look nice.

Corey Allan: Right.

Katie Runyan: And you want to go out and do fun things. So you're not looking at all your bills or the kids' diapers don't need to be changed. You're just there with your spouse having a good time. So you're bringing this, that is why typically vacation sex is the best sex.

Corey Allan: Right, right. It's a little bit of a break from our normal, which is what we can all find even in and among normal. If we could just have some impetus to set it up, right, of just like, "Okay. Wait, tonight is a different... Or this afternoon, or lunch," or whatever it may be. So how can people find more and jump into this whole extravaganza that you guys do?

Katie Runyan: We would love to see you. We have a website, it's called You can check us out there. We also have Instagram @FaithfulFling. We would love to have you check out our website. Our first fling is always free. You get it free for 21 days. There's no charge if it's not quite your cup of tea, just cancel beforehand. If it is, it's fantastic. You'll get one fling every month or we have a membership that offers one fling every other month. It's fantastic.

Corey Allan: Perfect.

Jon Ruyan: But I'll tell you, on the website, Katie's done a great job of putting a lot of frequently asked questions and blog posts. So they can go to that website and they can really get a better feel for what it is and what it isn't.

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Jon Ruyan: And also tips on how to maybe approach it with your spouse. There's a lot of information on if they browse through there. And so the other thing that I will say is at the end of the day, we set up the first fling, it's called the test drive and it's our customer's opportunity to test drive our product, right? And so it's free to sign up and try it out. So I think once they go through that first one, they'll get a really good feel for whether they like it or not. And we understand that our product is exactly what some couples need and other couples, it may not be.

Corey Allan: Right.

Jon Ruyan: So we let them try it and-

Corey Allan: And that's so good. Yeah, that's good. And as somebody who's seen it all with this too, because you guys graciously allowed me and my wife to check it out too, fully recommend it as a way to explore and add more. So Jon and Katie, thank you so much for the time thus far. And I'm looking forward to shifting gears just a little. This is my tease for the extended content. So here in just a minute.

Katie Runyan: Thank you.

Jon Ruyan: Thank you, Corey.

Corey Allan: So Pam, what comes to my mind is thinking about when, what, we're 29 years into this thing and-

Pam Allan: This thing of marriage.

Corey Allan: This thing of being married to one another.

Pam Allan: Over 10 years on the show, right?

Corey Allan: Fair enough. But when we were early on in our newlywed stages and early on in our marriage even, there was this element of how do we find if we wanted to explore novel things or taboo things, or role playing or fantasy, or even just how do I connect better and what's the world of desire?

Pam Allan: Yeah. Go find a book to read.

Corey Allan: Right. Go to Barnes and Noble, go to the library. I mean it's-

Pam Allan: Talk to friends.

Corey Allan: Maybe, which-

Pam Allan: You still do.

Corey Allan: I wish more people would actually do that because I don't think there's many conversations that take place among friends other than those that help spread the word of Sexy Marriage Radio. The nation does.

Pam Allan: I mean that was even from conversations from where we spoke yesterday. I mean I don't talk to friends and family about this. I just don't do it.

Corey Allan: Right. Well I love the fact that there's resources out more and more.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: One of them being Sexy Marriage Radio, but also the guests that we get to have access to in their work. And we can collaborate because I think we're all on the same path of how do we enhance connections? How do we enhance marriages? How do we enhance sex lives? Well that's what we're here for. And we hope that this has been helpful for you. So if we left something undone or you got more questions that you'd like us to follow up with, 214-702-9565, or We'll see you next time.