Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, passionatelymarried.net.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where a milestone was reached this past week since our last episode.

Pam Allan: Yes. Share what it is. Share, share.

Corey Allan: We have surpassed 10 million downloads with the show, as the show.

Pam Allan: Woo-hoo.

Corey Allan: So that's pretty incredible to think about. Just kind of watching that over the years and a big, huge thank you goes out to the SMR Nation for making that happen, because obviously people got to be downloading the show.

Pam Allan: Got to be it's not me sitting here going download, download, download.

Corey Allan: I don't go on every day and just download and keep downloading and keep downloading, just to pad the stats. As much as I wanted to do that when I was just starting this whole thing off, you wanted to climb the numbers, but now it's just about reaching people and helping frame conversations, which is what we try to do each and every week at Sexy Marriage Radio. And we want to know what we can help frame for you. So call us (214) 702-9565, feedback@sexymarriageradio.com is our inbox. We've got a lot of questions in the queue, but add yours to it. And if you've got something pressing, call and leave a voicemail, because that gets you to the front of the line and it allows you to ask what's on your mind or add your voice to the conversation, because we want to speak to what's going on with you.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: And then we also want you to help speak about what's going on with us, by spreading the word and let people know what's going on. Rate and review the show, leave a comment. And then lastly, come join us in person, June 23rd to the 25th in Indianapolis at the Getaway. By the way, little teaser warning, I guess you could say, I don't know if, teaser warning's probably the wrong phrase, but based on our family's schedule, we likely are taking next year off when it comes to the Getaway.

Pam Allan: Okay, that's right .

Corey Allan: Because of just a graduate coming up and some different things that we've got planned as a family are probably going to make it to where it's not going to be conducive to be able to do a Getaway. So if you don't want to wait a couple years before you can come join us at the next Getaway, come right now. This June. Register now, April 18th. Oh sorry, April 18th is tax day.

Pam Allan: It is.

Corey Allan: But April 15th is when the deadline happens with the early bird rate. And so the cost will go up. So save your spot. There's payment plans available, but come join us in Indy, passionatelymarried.net/getaway is where you can register and learn more about what's going on. Because it'll be a lot of information and a lot of fun.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Well coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is we're going to try to get through some questions. These are some, some just came in and some that have been out there for a bit.

Pam Allan: Good, good. Let's do it.

Corey Allan: So Pam's going to try to keep me succinct on the answers.

Pam Allan: That's that's that's always my goal, right? Dumb it down for me, and hopefully everybody else can understand it too, at that point.

Corey Allan: And then on the extended content, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe passionatelymarried.net/smracademy. We've got an email that has come in from a newlywed, that he's looking for ways to help change some stuff up in their marriage, from the very early start of just how do we bring in and incorporate other aspects of the sex acts that we could maybe be doing, but it's not quite comfortable yet.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so we're going to frame that for him from the very beginning, with a few other things sprinkled in.

Pam Allan: Your phraseology's funny, not quite comfortable yet. And then the question is, do we need to be comfortable?

Corey Allan: All that's coming up on today's show. So an email came in from a husband that says, "I would like to hear a show that talks about the sex scripts on how to, and I know every individual's preferences are different, but how to go through a time where you transition positions together to last longer and to have stronger orgasms. I've been married 19 years and we have five kids. Once my wife and I get going in intercourse, it's hard for her to stop and for me to last longer, unless we've been really active that day, as in, we've had a couple of times already. We will help each other finish or orgasm so we're both satisfied in the end, but I would like to get back to where we could orgasm with intercourse and not with toys, direct stimulation, or oral sex. Thanks for any advice that you have and for what you guys do."

Corey Allan: So this is one of those common things that we hear, and advice we've given in the past, throughout the archives is this idea of how do you last longer? And one of the recommendations is change some stuff up, which is interesting because what he's describing then is when you change it up, it's disruptive to a spouse. Now, all of a sudden they lose the mojo, even though he's attempting to try to do something to prolong the mojo.

Pam Allan: Right. And that's ... Well, fill in, you're on a train of thought and you're going.

Corey Allan: Well. And so what immediately jumps out to me is, he's put together this idea of how do we transition positions together to last longer? Because that's typically the goal, it will satisfy for most people. This is not all across the board, but a lot of times a breaking of a rhythm helps prolong things. That's just the truth of it. Because most of the time, if you want to reach orgasm reliably, as you get to a point, past the arousal pattern, there's a little bit of a plateau, and then it's rhythm that usually helps you get to the next threshold, which is orgasm.

Corey Allan: So if you can break that up and prolong, it'll help extend it. But he also is talking about and have stronger orgasms. I don't know how well those two go together because sometimes, I mean, sometimes it's a buildup-

Pam Allan: Buildup, buildup, buildup.

Corey Allan: ... but a lot of times it's not necessarily a buildup of how long it's gone on. And then all of a sudden you explode, unless there's a continual ramp up of that arousal cycle, because I think a lot of people still hit a plateau, where it's still feeling really good, let's not getting anything wrong here. But it is that element of what's the real goal? Is the real goal ... because I'm hearing multiple questions in here.

Pam Allan: Well, I was too. I was getting a little confused on it, because satisfied for them sounds like it's only reaching that orgasm.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Pam Allan: So I guess I would ... Is that true? Is that really what, that's the only thing that is the end goal here?

Corey Allan: So that's asking themselves the question, asking himself the question of what is satisfactory sexual experiences?

Pam Allan: Right, right.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Pam Allan: And what can be done in there so that she is not, and I guess I'm pointing this question to you as the expert. If she can't get back on track because a move is made, what recommendations are there to get her mind back on track. Because a move can be made, and I think you progress to even a next, when she's got that realization that, "I can make a position move and get back in this thing," and it kind of opens up this door-

Corey Allan: A whole new possibility.

Pam Allan: ... to other things. If she can realize, "I can keep my head in the game, I can do this."

Corey Allan: Or I can just reestablish connection, because a lot of us think this will be the theme for the day is, "What story am I telling myself?" And so at some point people can have this element of, "Well, if I break the rhythm, the story I tell myself is it's done."

Pam Allan: Right. I'm never going to get this back.

Corey Allan: Rather than who says?

Pam Allan: Yeah, you can.

Corey Allan: Who says? So first off to answer the question you're framing, Pam, one of the things you do is if you look at it in this, this is just the idea of looking at the interactions of a sexual encounter with your spouse as a play. I mean, Ian Kerner refers to it as you have a beginning, you have a middle, and you have an end.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Right. And that's an actual ... I love that framework. The beginning would be the foreplay, if you will, it would transition into the intercourse or whatever the actual, what you have usually deemed as sex. And then the end is how does it all resolve? If you just go simply like that. Well, a lot of times we think of, we've popularized on the show in some regards, the way we've talked about it, is there's a pattern or a process we follow when it comes to the intercourse, the actual sex, that people have usually thought of. Well, there's actually a pattern to the foreplay.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: We often do the same things in a pattern, in that act, that then transitions into whatever the quote unquote intercourse aspect or act is. So it's just like you can change up the foreplay pattern also, and play with that arena as a workspace mentally to see, what if you change it up there? Can you reestablish a connection better? Because what is it about once intercourse is started that you can't disrupt it. Can you disrupt something easier in foreplay and still stay connected?

Pam Allan: I gotcha.

Corey Allan: So that's an easier playground, if you will, to test it out, if you could explore that and see, can she reestablish, can you reestablish? But no, let's try it this way this time. I want to do this instead as we're warming up.

Pam Allan: So, okay. So you think it's easier to change it up in foreplay [crosstalk 00:10:14]

Corey Allan: Easier may be the wrong word, but I think that's the playground we can explore.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Or a ground where you can and look to cover and see, because a lot of times, once couples reach that point of penis has entered vagina, it seems like some script takes over and this is just what we're supposed to do. And this is all, rather than wait. The whole thing is the sexual act. So explore at the beginning differently and see if that helps explore in the middle or towards the end differently.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: And then the other thing that you can do is to recognize, my question from what you're asking or from what they're asking, is what is it that makes intercourse orgasm much more valuable than any other path to orgasm in your mind?

Pam Allan: Yeah. Because he wanted to eliminate-

Corey Allan: Direct stimulation, toys and oral sex.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so what is it about-

Pam Allan: I was trying to understand that too.

Corey Allan: ... where's the hierarchy come from? Well, everybody's got a hierarchy in the way we place value on acts or situations or experiences. And some people would be, intercourse is the most intimate connecting act that you can do, whereas another couple could be going, "Oral sex is the most intimate connecting act you could do." Or adding a toy is the most intimate connect. Everybody puts different values on it. And that usually means they're a little more fluid across the spectrum of people. So what is it that makes this the hierarchy for you? And, see, because sometimes reevaluating that label or meaning with that story helps open up the possibilities.

Pam Allan: Well, and maybe it helps understand expectations that you're putting on something that maybe don't need to be expectations. You're setting yourself up for disappointment if this can't continually happen or doesn't, or you realize, "Oh, why am I doing that? Why am I not just enjoying the full gamut?"

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: "I've got this expectation that really is kind of unfounded"

Corey Allan: Right. Because it also happens on the other side of the equation. So if she feels it gets, she gets disrupted if he changes something up in the middle, and now all of a sudden she's disconnected and it loses it for her. So what happens in his mind when they start intercourse, but he wants it to go longer, he's already disconnected if he's thinking, "Okay, wait, this isn't going to last as long." We get caught in our own heads rather than calm yourself down in the moment, hold onto yourself a little differently. Maybe don't thrust as much, slow down and see if that prolongs it. See if that builds something, actually connect with one another differently.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. So back to his specific, I think it was kind of a specific request of, how do I transition to help it last longer, even though her brain's not there? Her mind, that's kind of a no go for her. And I'm curious, they may have had multiple discussions about this, but I'm curious if he just is straightforward with her and says, "Okay, I might transition here and it's okay if you kind of lose it, I'm going to help you get back in it." Does he know what it is that helps her get back into where she was? Because I think that's a deeper connection working there together. "I'm here for you. It's okay if you lost right the moment. It's okay if you kind of, I mean maybe she's getting mad.

Corey Allan: Because what joy it'll be to reconnect it.

Pam Allan: To reconnect it, yeah. And maybe she's one that's like, "Are you kidding me? This was feeling so great, and you just moved it on me."

Corey Allan: And again, this is where paying attention matters. Because sometimes a person wants to change it up when their partners really getting into it, and so your timing matters in that regard. Think about it. Okay, we're going to go longer on this and not get as many questions done because this is just worth unpacking more.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: But it's recognizing that if one partner, we feed off each other in good and bad ways. So if I'm having a sexual encounter with you and you're really starting to get into it, it's going to fuel me more, which often then can be the trigger of, "But wait, I don't want to reach that point yet. And so therefore I'll do what I need to do for my benefit so I can extend it longer. Forget that the fact that you're getting into it," and it's bad timing then.

Pam Allan: Right, right. Because you're backing off while-

Corey Allan: And you're like, "Are you kidding me? You just took away ..." That becomes the power play between both of us. If you're trying to get what you want, because you're really getting into it, and I'm like, "I want to get what I want, which is counter to what you're wanting in the moment."

Pam Allan: Right, right.

Corey Allan: So sometimes it's the conversation you're describing means, have these prior two have these outside of the context [crosstalk 00:15:28]

Pam Allan: Yeah, not in the middle.

Corey Allan: ... of the situations just to say, "Hey, this is like a little workspace that we could talk through and try out between us, as I'm trying to handle me a little differently in this." And so if you want to change it up to go longer, just pay attention on your timing because it's easier for, it's likely easier for her to reconnect if she's not full on into it, if it's just kind of ramping up and it's just kind of-

Pam Allan: I'm almost to climax already-

Corey Allan: Don't, yeah.

Pam Allan: Come on.

Corey Allan: That's where then look at the whole script. This is again, the story you're telling yourself. What is it that makes it to where if she's already finished, it's all done. Or if you're already finished, it's all done.

Pam Allan: Exactly.

Corey Allan: You've got more that could be going on and that's enhancing and that's confronting yourself and the manner in which you've gone about things to try to do something different that you don't necessarily see yourself as all the time. But moving into that to just see, "What could I learn about me and us in this? What are we capable of in this?" And kind of leaning into that is a way to grow because it really is, we've said this before, the idea of where we categorize as couples that have great sex is just couples that recover better and can reconnect, because there are things that are disruptive. That's okay, that's going to happen. Just recover better. And that's the process of each of us doing that work. Not me helping you recover all the time or you helping me recover all the time. We each have to do some of our own heavy listing in this too.

Corey Allan: Today's podcast episode is sponsored by BetterHelp online therapy. We all know that relationships take a lot of work. And it's interesting because a lot of us will drop anything to help someone else that we care about. We may go out of our way to treat other people well, but how often do we give ourselves the same treatment? Well, therapy is a way that you can do that and BetterHelp offers the possibility of you being able to do that with help from anywhere that you are, as long as you've got decent internet connection.

Corey Allan: Well, this month BetterHelp online therapy wants to remind everyone to take care of your most important relationship, the one you have with yourself. We may take time to hit the gym or make time for getting a haircut, or you may even be trying therapy, but you are your greatest asset. So invest time and effort into yourself like you would for other people.

Corey Allan: BetterHelp is online therapy that offers video phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist so that you don't even have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's often much more affordable than in-person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Why don't you give it a try? See why over two million people have used BetterHelp online therapy. This is this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Sexy Marriage Radio listeners get 10% off of your first month at betterhelp.com/SMR. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com/SMR. Yes, I know I'm a therapist and I'm recommending other therapists. That means you got to try it out. Betterhelp.com/SMR.

Corey Allan: So here's an email that came in as a follow up to the episode, which was 557, We're One Flesh. So it's a husband saying, I understand where the guy is coming from in that episode where he states, "'If you want it, you know where I am.' I don't think he's playing games, because at some point a person gives up because of being turned down so much that the only way to deal with it is to walk away from ever expecting to have sex again. We've been married over 30 years, we've gone more than a year between having sex or any type of intimacy. 99% of the time I have to initiate it. My wife says that all you want to do is have sex. I really don't think y'all have any idea how it is to have a desire that only your spouse can fulfill and your spouse won't help you fulfill your passion.

Corey Allan: "1 Corinthians 7-9 it talks about, "But if they can't control themselves, let them marry for its better to marry than to burn with passion." But if you are married and you burn with passion, then what do you do, because your spouse won't have a sexual relationship with you. I don't watch pornography, but my wife will talk about a guy that she knows that's hooked on pornography and she doesn't understand why he watches it. She talks to her lady friends about the marriage problems, but she ignores ours. We attend church regularly and we both are believers. We went to marriage counseling several years ago. She said it was a waste of time and money. Thanks for your help, signed, Frustrated."

Corey Allan: And you can just hear the frustration in his voice and in his terminology. So this is also another thread we've had before of, what do I do when I'm stuck in a situation where the only thing, only condoned place to satisfy this aspect of what I'm looking for in my life is in my marriage and my partner is not on board. So it's a gridlock issue.

Pam Allan: It is.

Corey Allan: But I want to kind of pick out a couple of these things, Pam, and then I'm curious about what jumps out to you as well.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Okay, just from a female perspective.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: But one, he talks about this idea of 1 Corinthians 7 and 9, "But if you can't control themselves, let them marry. For it's better to marry than to burn with passion," which one of the things that really bothers me is when we use outside things to justify my stance.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Right. It's weaponizing things that I don't think are weapons.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: I think there are things that call us to something bigger, draw out, hopefully, the best in us. But if I use it tp my benefit, it's not the best in me.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: I mean, if I'm simplifying a relationship of with God and his people, I think God's calling upon our character and wisdom and that's typically not weaponizing things to use at other people's detriment.

Pam Allan: I gotcha.

Corey Allan: Okay. So my question that jumps out to this is, apparently he married so he doesn't burn with passion, but what if his wife didn't marry because she's burning with passion?

Pam Allan: I hear what you're saying.

Corey Allan: Because there are a lot of marriages out there, and this is not stuff people talk about because it's painful. But I see this in my practice a lot where one partner, when they're brutally honest with themselves, they didn't get married for sex.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: They got married for other reasons.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: They realized sex is a part of the equation, hopefully, but that's not why they're there.

Pam Allan: Right. So to throw out this scripture as a reason that we would've done it, that is that's a moot point, and it is weaponizing it for her purposes of why she got married.

Corey Allan: And then the other stuff is this idea of, I don't think you understand, have any idea how it is to have a desire that only your spouse can fulfill. I mean, a lot of this is a defeatist stance, which that's not going to inspire anything. That's going to come across ... I mean, think of, because we've had a history of this at times, where I would be really poor in the manner in which I would go about trying to fulfill something I wanted that you weren't interested in. And when I take a stance like that, am I wrong that it comes across a lot more desperate than solid?

Pam Allan: You're not wrong. You're not wrong. I want a man that's solid on his own two feet. I want you to take hold of your part and go from there. She's got to take care of her part and go from there. And there's nothing he can do about her side of it other than be a good lead.

Corey Allan: And the lead is for himself.

Pam Allan: Exactly.

Corey Allan: First and foremost, because that then leads straight into the statement at the end of, we went to marriage counseling several years ago, she said it was a waste of time and money. Okay.

Pam Allan: Totally frustrating. I get [crosstalk 00:23:50]

Corey Allan: Yes, but what is it that keeps you from continuing to go?

Pam Allan: Go for yourself.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because this is the thing that always, and I will fully recognize on the air I'm biased when it comes to of the counseling profession. I'm total advocate for it because I also do it. This is what is intriguing to me is what if we treated other doctors and professionals like the counseling profession seems to get treated by the general public? "Well, I went and it didn't work." If I went to the dentist, "Well, I went and then I got another cavity," or "I went to the doctor. Well, I went and they didn't make the pain go away, so I'm just swearing off doctors."

Pam Allan: Oh. But I kept eating ice cream for every meal every day. I couldn't lose any weight because this [crosstalk 00:24:44]

Corey Allan: I went to a dietician and I didn't lose any weight. I mean, it's just, there's this element of, we seem to treat counseling with this idea of it's a one size fits all.

Pam Allan: So keep going for yourself.

Corey Allan: And it'll help me, and if it doesn't, then it's a waste of time and money rather than, "Hold on. My perspective needs to be shifted to realize I'm not going to counseling for them to fix me. I'm going to counseling for me to fix me."

Pam Allan: Or I'm not, or realize that if I'm going to marriage counseling, I am not going for them to fix my spouse because there's two of us in this marriage.

Corey Allan: Yep.

Pam Allan: And the only thing I have control over is me.

Corey Allan: Yep.

Pam Allan: So what is it I need to go for? Maybe I just need to go by myself.

Corey Allan: Right. And this is where if you can chill change the perspective and the story you tell yourself, you have the greater likelihood of actually starting to address the spouse you have better, not the one you wish they were.

Pam Allan: Mm.

Corey Allan: And there's a huge difference there, because a lot of times we've said this before on confronting what's present, not what's missing. Because what I'm hearing him in the stance he's taken is, his focus is on what's missing. So what's present? Confront that. That's how you gain some ground under your own feet, and you see if you have a partner that's on the same page or not because obviously they're not, but they just haven't clearly defined how far off they are on what they're each seeking from this equation with each other. That doesn't mean it's perilous. It just means got to be a little more honest, because sometimes I can find the resolve to understand, "Okay, you're seeking more safety and long term security with this thing than you are sexual encounters. Okay. I can get that. I want that too. I just don't want it like you do." Now all of a sudden we've just gained a little ground because we've got an understanding of why we're each here.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And it doesn't change the gridlock, it just clearly defines it better.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: And most of the time we don't do anything that's productive when it comes to a gridlock because we haven't defined it cleanly enough, and good therapy, in my mind, helps you define it better. And then you figure out who am I in the manner in which I'm approaching it, because you got to go through it. You don't go around it. Well, best laid plans, Pam. We come into a show and, "Yeah, we're going to get a whole lot of things covered"

Pam Allan: Well, we got three.

Corey Allan: Counting the extended content, we did get three.

Pam Allan: Yes.

Corey Allan: But my thought was we could maybe even get four or five today when I set this, when I laid this show out.

Pam Allan: There you go. Here you go. Hot buttons.

Corey Allan: Well, but again, let's kind of steer this to what we're the subject we talk about. Sometimes quickies aren't as satisfying.

Pam Allan: Yeah, no, no.

Corey Allan: And this is the slow groove that you like so much from the show, from the song that we've got going on.

Pam Allan: I do like the slow groove.

Corey Allan: So this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone, we want you to let us know. Or if we've got some things that your words and input would enhance and magnify it, please join the conversation. Let us know at (214) 702-9565, feedback@sexymarriageradio.com or jump into the dialogues that are going on on the platform, my.passionatelymarried.net. So wherever you are, however you've taken some time out to listen, thank you so much. And we'll see you next time.