Speaker: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, passionatelymarried.net.

Corey Allan: Welcome to the show. I'm Dr...

Pam Allan: Thank you.

Corey Allan: Well, it's good to see you too.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: I'm Dr. Corey Allen. Alongside my wife, Pam, we explore topics and questions and content that every relationship faces. And then we also sometimes get spurred along with some questions that are provided by our sponsor today. The connection cards from the Adventure Challenge.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: We've talked about this a couple different weeks now.

Pam Allan: I love this type. Conversation.

Corey Allan: Big fans of it, there's two different decks, the couples and then the in bed, but just a sampling of what they cover and what they do. So what's one embarrassing story from your childhood that you haven't told me yet, babe?

Pam Allan: I don't think I want to tell it on the air.

Corey Allan: Well, let's hold it for the extended content sometime.

Pam Allan: All right. That's for you and me, baby.

Corey Allan: Oh, well then that's the extended, extended content.
Well, if you're interested in spicing up your conversations, the connection cards are a great way to go. Last week we talked about if one of the questions was, if you and I started a podcast, what would the title be? Which is a great one because Sexy Marriage Radio, but also for today, we'll let everybody know coming in 2023, the first week of January, is the Sexy Marriage Radio is going to pivot. Same show, new title.

Pam Allan: Yes.

Corey Allan: Passionately Married podcast.

Pam Allan: Which I love.

Corey Allan: That widens the lane, we can add a little bit of topic to it of what we cover, but it's the same thing. Everything we've been doing for 11 years, we're going to keep doing, just under a new title.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: Look, if you're just interested in more show info, we'll tell you a little bit more in a second. But also if you're interested in some cards to help spice up your conversation along with listening to Passionately Married podcast in 2023, theadventurechallenge.com, use our code SMR20 and get 20% off this holiday season for anything you buy from The Adventure Challenge, theadventurechallenge.com, SMR20, take advantage of the sales.
Well, as I just mentioned, just a little bit of housekeeping as we're starting the show today. We are making a change and we've talked about this, kind of set it up, the extended content people know already because that's what last week's episode was, and the extended content, just kind of talking about the rationale and what this is all about. But we are making just a pivot. I mean, I love the idea of, it's the same show, we're just changing the title to remove a barrier of Sexy Marriage Radio, sometimes I think we keep coming across this idea of sexy keeps getting in the way.

Pam Allan: Of some people it does. Yeah. So we want to increase the likelihood of sharing, likelihood of some people are... I don't know, I had a coworker who's thought, well is it just a Dr. Ruth show? Yeah, this is about being better people. So it's more broader concept in the title, but does allow for here and there, some broader topics within marriage. There's always the high desire, low desire though, right?

Corey Allan: In everything.

Pam Allan: The concepts are the same, so we're really looking forward to what this is going to do for the future.

Corey Allan: And this is just a breathing new life, a new year, let's kind of come at it from a different way because I think to me, I love passionately and married, they're both action words.

Pam Allan: Yes they are.

Corey Allan: And I think that's what creates so much better energy, connection, intimacy, sex, everything. When I can bring myself into it, it's choice, I'm passionate towards something, I see it as a new horizons of where we can go. And so since you're listening to the show regularly, we hope, and you'll come check us out. You have to do nothing. It'll stay the same. The feed, everything will automatically adjust and it'll be just the next show in January, the first one out in two weeks from now will just automatically be it, you don't have to find it any different way, so it's very, very simple.
Today with Sexy Marriage Radio, what we're going to do is the last two shows of the year, I'm going to spend a little bit of time just kind of looking back by revisiting a couple of things. And today's episode is, this would be, if I think through all of the guests we had, I didn't go back through and think of, or count up how many guests have been on SMR to this point, because there's a lot.

Pam Allan: Yeah, there is.

Corey Allan: There's a lot, but there's several that really stand out, because we've had a lot of really good relationship minds join the conversation. They're experts in certain aspects of a dynamic in the relationship and it's been a privilege to have them just share their wealth of knowledge with us. And so there's several things that have come to my mind, several of them are some of the top ones that have been replayed, we've revisited before.
But this one is one that stands out in my mind and one of my go-tos, because of how helpful she was. And this is Dr. Kelly Casperson and her concept of you're not broken. She's an MD urologist that works with the pelvic area for years and years now with women. And she's now on a mission to help ladies understand, you're not broken. And she comes at it such a playful, fun, engaging way, but is chocked full of information that is just biologically correct and accurate.

Pam Allan: And useful.

Corey Allan: And absolutely useful. So in the regular content today we talk about what are some of the different things that continue to get in the way of the beliefs that we bring into this. What are some of the things that women believe when they bring into their sex lives that makes them start thinking, well I must just be broken. And then on the extended content today, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at passionatelymarried.net/SMRAcademy. We continue our conversation, but this time we pivoted to where do orgasms reside in the brain? What's going on in the brain when orgasms are happening? And I love the neurology of this and the science, and I think there's just such some cool aspects of how we're made, how we're wired, what makes us who we are. And so all that's coming up on today's show.
Well I'm excited to bring a specialist, I guess probably one of the great ways to describe you, Kelly, is Dr. Kelly Casperson is joining me today for Sexy Marriage Radio because she is an MD at urology, right? That is what your specialty is?

Kelly Casperson: Yep. Urology.

Corey Allan: And so I think you bring a unique skillset and a unique framework to the whole realm of marriage and sex and just relationship dynamics. And so this is going to be a fantastic conversation, Kelly. I'm already excited, so welcome to the show.

Kelly Casperson: Thanks for having me.

Corey Allan: So I was looking through some stuff that you've got and then the show that you have, and you and I have a similar mission, let's help people and let's help them get out of their own way, let's help some of the myths, let's help some of the... you frame it as limiting beliefs. So walk me through what are the big ones you see that truly are limiting beliefs when it comes to the way people interact with life, interact with their sex life, interact in relationships?

Kelly Casperson: Oh man, this so good. How much time do you have? We have so many limiting beliefs. The thing about beliefs is we think they're facts. That's what our brain does. Our brain's like, this is a fact, when really it's just a thought. With a thought, you think over and over and over again, whether you're aware of it or not aware of it is a belief.

Corey Allan: Right.

Kelly Casperson: And then we say a belief, a limiting belief, is something that, it's actually kind of holding you back from whatever else could be out there. Or even just a different way of looking at things which might serve you better than the way you're currently looking at something. So that's to break it down for what's a limiting belief for somebody.
Limiting beliefs for sex, there's so many. Sex should be easy. This shouldn't be hard. I should want spontaneous desire all the time. There's just so many, and we just think they're rules, but they're not rules. These aren't actually provable in the court of law. They're just things that we tell ourselves that really we say, what do you... start challenging a belief, you can say, is this serving me? Is a nice way to just judge that belief. Is it serving me to think I don't want sex and I don't like sex and sex is difficult. And all that stuff is like, oh maybe it's not serving you. What's a different way of thinking about it? And it's a leap for some people to be like, I can't just start thinking sex is fun. It's not believable yet. But a thought of what we call bridge thoughts is, I'm learning to explore sex in a different way. That's believe. I'm going to listen to some podcasts and actually start talking to my spouse about it.
So that's already a more believable thought and that thought helps your brain start looking at ways of like, oh, how can I start learning about sex that might be fun? Because your brain will start wanting to prove that thought true. Right?

Corey Allan: Okay.

Kelly Casperson: So it's like whenever you feed it is very important because then it'll start looking for proof for that. So those are some of common limiting beliefs as far as sex goes that I see a lot.

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Kelly Casperson: Oh, another limiting belief, now that I've hit menopause, women just don't like sex after menopause. That nobody has sex in a long-term relationship, so it's okay that don't. Just kind of these beliefs that we don't challenge.

Corey Allan: So personally speaking, I'm hoping those two suckers are truly wrong beliefs because I'm in a long-term relationship and menopause for my wife can't be far away because I'm 50 now, and so life is getting up there for us.

Kelly Casperson: Life's getting up there.

Corey Allan: We're now considered old to our kids.

Kelly Casperson: Yeah. Average age of menopause in America and the UK is 51. I mean menopause is so not talked about, that it's good just to sprinkle facts in there for people.

Corey Allan: No, that's what we try to do at Sexy Marriage Radio all the way through, and I know that's what you're trying to do too. One of the things I love, the limiting belief I saw right off the top is that whole, I'm broken.

Kelly Casperson: Yes.

Corey Allan: That something's wrong.

Kelly Casperson: Oh, yeah. Something's wrong with me.

Corey Allan: So therefore I'm broken. Let's talk about that because I think that is such a destructive thought process and belief. If I start to really own that, and I see that on two levels, help me point out where I could be wrong or let's refine it. One is obviously an individual, and if it's the female or the male, but I would put it most likely the lower desire partner comes across as, well I'm broken, there's something wrong with me. But I think it also becomes a relational belief, that now all of a sudden their partner thinks that it's them that's broken. And now you got all kinds of issues that can come from it. But let's talk about the individual level first, and I think you lean yourself more towards working with a lot more of the female population, yes?

Kelly Casperson: I tend to, in my podcast and my female sex ed. I mean as a urologist I'm trained, we're trained, in male sexual function, so I get to come at it from a very any gender perspective. But certainly what I thought was lacking was female sexual education and equality. If we're going to give credence to his sexual function, we should give equal and opposite credence to hers.

Corey Allan: Totally.

Kelly Casperson: So just by default I do tend towards female, absolutely.

Corey Allan: Okay, so let's go with that, let's maybe use both, men and women both on when that limiting belief comes in of I'm broken, let's unpack that.

Kelly Casperson: Yeah. So when, we'll say she, we'll say she feels broken, that limiting belief prevents you, like I said, the brain tries to justify those thoughts. So if you're broken, you might not be looking at ways that you aren't broken. Even that simple thing of, I'm actually really great as a mom, I'm actually really great as a partner, I love my feet, whatever else. You're not doing all of the things where you're like... there's actually so much of you that's not broken, number one. I would argue nobody's inherently broken. I think we are all worthy as we are without changing anything, so my belief is nobody's broken.
But amongst the broken feeling, there's so much that's not broken. But if you think you're broken, you're not seeing all those other things, so I think that's number one. With the spouse, because I'll see this, the spouse, we'll say stereotypically male spouse will come in and he'll say she's broken, she needs to be fixed.

Corey Allan: She's the problem.

Kelly Casperson: She's the problem. And what that does is number one, it reinforces her belief that she's broken, because look, the person I love the most is saying it. And number two, it absolves him of any work that he has to do in the relationship.

Corey Allan: And that's where it starts to become so convoluted, if you will. Because I mean Sexy Marriage Radio has a history of... I love it, some of my favorite listeners are the ones that have reached out to me saying, "Hey, I found you and I started listening because I needed my spouse fixed". Because that's a lot of the reason why people reach out for help is yeah, fix my spouse, that'll make my life and plot of life a whole lot better. And then I would hear from them after a couple of weeks of listening, I hated you because you wouldn't do anything about the spouse, you were only making me deal with me.

Kelly Casperson: Beautiful.

Corey Allan: And, duh. That's what the whole point is.

Kelly Casperson: Mission accomplished.

Corey Allan: Exactly. But I love what you just said on the idea of the brain will kind of look for reasons to make it true, if you will of like, if I had this belief of I'm broken, then now all of a sudden it becomes this self-fulfilling prophecy of, yeah, see that didn't work. That just confirms the fact that I'm broken, it doesn't work. And rather than, okay, how do you slow that down? How do you challenge that belief? How do you look at the other areas like you're describing? And it really can round out your experience of wait, I could learn in this. I am capable of this because I've even proved it out maybe way, way back in the past, but I have proved it. So what's changed? And it's just kind of all at that level of just discussing a dynamic inside you changes everything, right?

Kelly Casperson: Yeah. It's really poking, I like to say, I like to poke holes and thoughts of you get to let the sunshine in or the water run through or something. Then it's like all these thoughts which we take as facts and then we're like, is it actually serving us? And with the whole broken thing is like, what are you not experiencing or going after in life because of your belief that you're broken. And it's like the sky's limit. Once you figure out like, oh I'm as worthy as anybody else is of X, Y and Z, let's go for it.

Corey Allan: So how do you then transition the person that's talking about that they're listening to this and thinking, okay, I resonate with this. This is something I tell myself. What's my first step?
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Kelly Casperson: I think the first step is just question the thought of is it absolutely true? And that's what all the big thought leaders do with the mindfulness and the awareness of just realize it's a thought even, of is it provable in the court of law? No. Okay, it's a thought and it's not a fact. And then you can start just questioning. I was just seeing it as a thought and realizing I'm really hanging onto this thought, and you can just start playing with it of where did it come from? Oh, well it turns out that my second grade teacher called me a smart ass in front of the entire class and ever since then I won't speak up because I'm super afraid of the second grade.
And you're like, these thoughts aren't even ours sometimes. They get put in there by other people and then can start letting in the light, letting the water drain out and start playing with it. Because again, making that leap from, I'm not broken to I'm amazing, people don't do that. If people did that, it'd probably be a different world. So we just have to start poking holes in the thought, seeing where that thought came from, seeing how it might not be true, seeing if the opposite might be true. So you just really start playing with your thoughts.

Corey Allan: Okay. And then I think you add that second question you had earlier of is this serving me?

Kelly Casperson: Is it serving me?

Corey Allan: Is this something that's providing a lot of value or life or vibrancy or anything to my experience, because if I can take a curious stance you're describing, I change everything rather than I'm all of a sudden immediately judgmental in buying it.

Kelly Casperson: Totally. And for the sex, if I feel broken in my sexual relationship, is that serving our relationship for me to just feel broken? Is that accomplishing anything? Well, no, it's just allowing me to sit in this pit of despair. So realizing it's not actually serving my relationship for me to feel broken. So now what can we do about that?

Corey Allan: And so then let's pivot it to the relationship dynamic, because you are talking about the idea that a spouse comes in thinking, well fix them, that's my issue is them, that I love the fact that when I get a chance to work with couples and one of them really gets it and they up their game in a sense and they really start questioning some things that usually freaks the other partner out. Because then all of a sudden like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Now there's more required of me, now what my role in this has been is starting to become more seen and obvious and I don't know if I like this as much. Which then that's still limiting beliefs on their side.

Kelly Casperson: Oh yeah, definitely. And I think again, stereotypically, because that's how we have to summarize things. But stereotypically the male or the higher desired person just wants the other person's desire to be brought up. And when you really start questioning that higher desired person, you're like, are you providing sex that they're actually interested in? How are you treating them day to day so that they're actually interested in doing this with you? There is ownership on everybody in the relationship. It's not one person that's broken.

Corey Allan: No, not at all. And so then if we go from that to this idea of I'm broken, now all of a sudden I start to test out this fact that maybe I'm not, what's the leap you've come across that people need to take where they haven't seen it as this is something that's for my enjoyment, to where they get to where, you know what? Maybe I could really enjoy this. Because I think we get caught in a lot of the duty obligation, it's really not for me. I mean that's what culture has done badly in a lot of ways where it's been male centered way too much and that's totally disparaging and discouraging to women. But how do you get it to the changing of, no, no this is for me, I can enjoy this. This is something that's really good for me.

Kelly Casperson: Yeah, I mean how I start is, part of it's just the sex education of, we're not even taught how to have sex so that the woman enjoys it, and then we go around thinking she's the broken one. So a lot of it's just education and being like this is how your body works, this is how things have kind of got awry in heterosexual relationships. Just education, because it starts, again, poking holes of maybe I'm not the broken one. I didn't know that most people don't have orgasms with penis and vagina penetration. Good to know. So you just kind of feel less broken about it.
And then it's really that switch from being passive or accepting sex onto you to realizing you're a sexual being, you have agency. This is as much as part of your enjoyment as it should be anybody elses. And I describe it as learning how to stand up, but it's kind of learning how to own your space in it. Because women, again, stereotypically in our society, we're not encouraged to be sexual. Now I'm telling you, you should enjoy sex and it's a big leap. So you kind of get there slowly of, hey this is an activity that you have body parts designed for as much as anybody else does, but you're not taught that that's okay. So part of it and owning it is knowing it's okay, we're all sexual beings, we're all deserving of this.

Corey Allan: And in some cultures, because I'm thinking of some of the really religious, dogmatic, legalistic side of things, not only is something that you're not taught that your sexual being, if you are taught it, you're taught that sexual prowess for a woman is dangerous, and so therefore you must be modest. You must, for the sake of the men who can't control themselves, you must rather than... Hold on. That's disparaging to every human, of we are not part of the animal kingdom that we can't control ourselves, hopefully. I think we all need to strive for that at least. Or nobody gets any work done and it's destructive to everybody.
So when you're walking through this of just the education, what are some of the main things that you come across when you start getting into the desire, because you made the comment of menopause means, nope, I'm done, I won't enjoy this anymore, let's have the ceremony and we'll move on with a platonic relationship.

Kelly Casperson: Yeah, it's that stereotype or limiting belief, I guess, is old people don't have sex. Our society doesn't model it, we don't see it in Hollywood, so we really have this belief that, well I guess what we had in our twenties was as good as it's going to get. Where, when you read the research, there's this amazing book called, what is it? Magnificent Sex by Peggy Kleinplatz.

Corey Allan: Yep.

Kelly Casperson: It's like older people, whatever that might mean for people, fifties, sixties, seventies and above have the best sex of their lives. So what can we learn from them? And number two, that just breaks down the barrier of yeah, it's over, of like, no, no, no, it can keep getting better but you have to work... Not at work like, ugh, but it's a skill, right? Like you're not good at tennis right away. You keep working at tennis, you're going to get better at tennis. It's another skill that you can keep getting better at instead of this societal belief of old people don't have sex, so I guess that's what we do.
The other thing I think just medically with menopause is things happen when we have low estrogen that really do affect, especially penis and vagina, penetrative, intercourse. We do have to take care of our skin. I think replacing estrogen in the vagina, very important. And people need to hear this, because where do we get this information from? Certainly the average doctor isn't going to be like, yo, you're having great sex, you want to keep that good? Consider vaginal estrogen as preventative healthcare.

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Kelly Casperson: So it's really important for people to know what happens because of menopause doesn't mean that your sex life has to end.

Corey Allan: Yeah. I can see the billboards already, Kelly.

Kelly Casperson: I know.

Corey Allan: On the highway. Vaginal healthcare.

Kelly Casperson: Vaginal healthcare.

Corey Allan: Vaginal healthcare.

Kelly Casperson: Exactly. I was like, you go along, you probably see this with you doing your podcast too. It's like you go along and then you're like, I didn't realize my purpose in life is just to tell people to use vaginal estrogen when it's time. But it keeps coming back to that's my mission in life. But yeah, a limiting belief of if you're just supposed to stop having sex once you hit a certain age, that's going to be very different outcome than, hey, I hear the vaginal tissues get drier and more painful when we take estrogen away. What can I do to help prevent that? So it's the way we think about things.

Corey Allan: No, that's huge because I hear it as you've kind of got the both ends of the spectrum mission right now of it's education. One of my favorite phrases on just we need to have a more accurate level of sex education for teenagers and kids too, this is from the theorist I did all my training under, Dr. Schnars, and he made the comment of, "If nothing else, we got to reach the point to where when we talk about sex in a committed relationship to a people that are younger than us, we need to explain to them the profoundness of what's going on".
Because in my case, I would say to my kids, honey, or kids, your mom and I have been banging away at each other for 28 years and we still haven't figured it all out. Just because there's so much more going on than just an act when you start bringing into the equation, because this is what I keep seeing with the research you've referenced, that the elder we get into a relationship, the better the sex is because you're more comfortable in your own skin and it's not necessarily what you do or don't do, it's who you are and who you bring to the party. And there's a difference in that. There's less anxiety, there's less awkwardness, there's less some of that kind of stuff that it's just like, this is me, here we go. And there's some freedom there.

Kelly Casperson: Totally. There's so much freedom there. And again, that thought of you are not broken. If you take the, I'm broken, into the bedroom, your orgasms are hiding. They are not there. Our body image, the way we view ourselves, kind of that what they call spectatoring, right? You're watching sex to make sure it's going okay. That is not where good sex lives. That's not how the orgasm works in the brain neurologically. So there's so much work to be done on that limiting belief and that body image and all that stuff to help basically liberate yourself in the bedroom.

Corey Allan: Perfect. Well, Kelly, as we kind of wrap up this segment, how do anybody that's in the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation that's listening to today's show, how do they find more about you? Give them a little bit of a spiel to find you because I want people to find your information, because it is top-notch.

Kelly Casperson: Thank you. So on Instagram, I'm Kelly Casperson MD. Same with my website, kellycaspersonmd.com. My podcast is, You Are Not Broken. And then the book's coming out in 2022. You are Not Broken: Stop "Should-ing" All Over Your Sex Life.

Corey Allan: That's such a great title. I'm excited for that already.

Kelly Casperson: Thanks.

Corey Allan: Kelly, thanks so much for the time thus far and I can't wait to continue the conversation here in just a minute.
One of the cool things about Dr. Casperson is this year she started her own show, You are Not Broken.

Pam Allan: Oh nice.

Corey Allan: And she's killing it. It's just blowing up.

Pam Allan: Well, she's got such great work and demeanor and you name it.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. And so it's a privilege and an honor to collaborate with people over the years. And it's going to be a privilege and honor because I'm already starting to connect with her and other people about where we're heading with the change to Passionately Married, and the feedback we get is just incredibly helpful of everybody's like, I love that idea. I think that's a great move. So this is such an exciting moment because as we start winding down a year, it's one of those, I think everybody kind of looks at what's the new beginnings, what's next? What do we do this next year? I mean, you and I have had this conversation some about what's coming up, the schedule and the plans, not just professionally, but family and maritally. So we're just at personal plea, personal request. Join us going into 2023 and stay with the nation to continue to grow and enhance your relationship and your life and your connections and just be more passionately married.

Pam Allan: The world needs it.

Corey Allan: Absolutely, they do.
Well, if you like the show, you can help us out by rating and reviewing us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or however you listen. Your comments help us spread the word and help other people find the show so that we can help them frame their conversations and spark some things in their lives. Transcripts are available on each of the shows pages at passionatelymarried.net. All our advertisers deals and discount codes are also available on each of the episodes pages at passionatelymarried.net. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
Greatest compliments you can give us is to share the shows with those you care about this holiday season. And on that note, Pam and I wish you a wonderful and happy, merry Christmastime with you and your family and your spouse, and safe travels wherever you are in the world as you celebrate some time together, may it be blessed. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.